How can people possibly be so bad?

[BiggestNoob]

Common misconception. And leveling doesn't teach you that anyway.

It's not a misconception. If you don't know what your abilities do, you're not going to play your spec properly.

Being given them one at a time massively increases the chances that someone actually learns what each ability does and puts at least some thought into it.

[SLSAMG]

desert-wind,

I love how you call it a padding spec so you're completely wrong in that regard as anything can be considered a pad spec if you're not focusing on the priority target(s). That other mage had tome and more time to play with pof as stated, pof completely changes the way we play arcane so if you had any shred of common knowledge you'd know this. I guess I should've expected as much seeing as you were still lolfrost.

By your logic, you seem to think I don't know my class; let alone know how to play it. I can assure you that's not the case since I've raided with top 30 US guilds in the past so again, whatever makes you sleep at night.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done (I went fire on this iskar kill that lasted 5 mins flat. By your logic - that's still considered padding even though adds needs to die, right?)

Idonteven....

And before I took my long break.



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So yeah, I know how to play my class just fine. Thanks for your input though.

[Unholyground]

Oh also this is something that has been happening since WoW began so it is not unique to any one version of the game.

[Zoldor]

I definitely agree with the sentiment that dungeons are supposed to be a learning ground and instructional part of the game in WoW. However, I think they have been a very poor teacher for a long time and, as a result, performance of a vast majority of the playerbase has not been improved with the increase in content difficulty at higher levels of PvE.

As someone who has played every expansion, at what point were 5 mans ever a learning curve for raiding? You've always been able to over gear them, one decent tank or healer in the early days was enough to drag any shit group through a 5 man. BC had 1 tough 5 man and it was basically a bring the class and it is fine thing. I just don't remember when 5 mans were ever a true learning curve to raiding that couldn't be massively over geared.

As to your original post, sorry, but its the end of the expansion and puging is reaching its true shit point. Then again next week you could walk into one and get a good group. I've pugged on alts for years and basically 1 week could be clean and easy and another is exactly what you described. End of the expansion always being the worst.

[Egregious]

As someone who has played every expansion, at what point were 5 mans ever a learning curve for raiding? You've always been able to over gear them, one decent tank or healer in the early days was enough to drag any shit group through a 5 man. BC had 1 tough 5 man and it was basically a bring the class and it is fine thing. I just don't remember when 5 mans were ever a true learning curve to raiding that couldn't be massively over geared.

As to your original post, sorry, but its the end of the expansion and puging is reaching its true shit point. Then again next week you could walk into one and get a good group. I've pugged on alts for years and basically 1 week could be clean and easy and another is exactly what you described. End of the expansion always being the worst.

As someone who has played every expansion as well, 5 mans in Vanilla (for different reasons), TBC, WotLK, and Cata were much more rigorous at the appropriate ilvl. Obviously, once people outgear content, it will be trivial as that is the basic definition of trivializing content.

Obviously a large portion of the issue stems from the content drought, as I stated earlier. We'll see what this week holds. I'm already waiting in my first H Arch while the group fills.

[Djriff]

Worse comes to worse just make your own group and kick the baddies.

[Tharkkun]

Wow, someone thinks the majority of dps are actually participating in LFR wings :-P

Don't underestimate how bad a player can really be. I know first hand when we tried our hardest to include my son in law in raiding. If he managed to make it through a fight in normal mode Highmaul he might have come close to the tanks overall damage. Never above, but close. I worked with him and tried to help but he couldn't grasp the concepts of anything but mashing buttons when he felt like it. He understood fire but if "stand in the fire" looks like something pulsing on the ground he ate it like a champ.

I'm sure millions of other players are exactly the same way.

[Fabinas]

Don't underestimate how bad a player can really be. I know first hand when we tried our hardest to include my son in law in raiding. If he managed to make it through a fight in normal mode Highmaul he might have come close to the tanks overall damage. Never above, but close. I worked with him and tried to help but he couldn't grasp the concepts of anything but mashing buttons when he felt like it. He understood fire but if "stand in the fire" looks like something pulsing on the ground he ate it like a champ.

I'm sure millions of other players are exactly the same way.

Trust me, i don't. It's just that those people don't care about their performance, they don't have the mentality of a MMO, contributing to the common cause. "It's a game" to them, meaning they will do as they please, because that's their definition of fun in a game.

On the other hand, the slackers exist as well.

[BiggestNoob]

Trust me, i don't. It's just that those people don't care about their performance, they don't have the mentality of a MMO, contributing to the common cause. "It's a game" to them, meaning they will do as they please, because that's their definition of fun in a game.

On the other hand, the slackers exist as well.

By definition the people who don't care but engage in group content are slackers.

[Fabinas]

Well to you and me, maybe, but there are these guys that just press buttons and think they play the game. When i referred to slackers in my post i meant the ones who afk, /follow, use cd's or passive dmg sources and that's all they do, while doing something else at the same time.

[Daedius]

Because many people apply wanting to be carried. Blizzard have catered to this lot far too much, and this sort of thing as the end result is to be expected.

[Kazgrel]

Breaking news: People are bad at video games.

More breaking news: Water is wet.

More news at 11.

Infracted;

[Zoldor]

As someone who has played every expansion as well, 5 mans in Vanilla (for different reasons), TBC, WotLK, and Cata were much more rigorous at the appropriate ilvl. Obviously, once people outgear content, it will be trivial as that is the basic definition of trivializing content.

Obviously a large portion of the issue stems from the content drought, as I stated earlier. We'll see what this week holds. I'm already waiting in my first H Arch while the group fills.

good luck I noticed the break point about the time that Legion Beta and Overwatch dropped my pugs have gotten worse. Even in guild a lot of players are playing Overwatch and those that aren't are oddly back into Diablo. The last few months of a drought are the worst and this is a long one.

Even at level the only dungeons I can distinctly having a lot of trouble with were Shattered Halls, Scholo, Grim Batol (or Grimbutthole as I perfer) and Stonecore. With really only shattered halls being truly painful because of a comp requirement early on. The rest being more folks not knowing wtf to do forever in those instances. MgT could be rather annoying as well on a boss that again wasn't that bad with the right comp. I thought wrath had the easiest dungeons about level with MoP.

Vannila had some really long dungeons, but I don't remember even at the time having that much trouble. IN BC I remember more running certain ones a lot for specific gear and quest items but not them being that bad. The ones I didn't run were because I didn't need anything from them. Shadowlabs etc.

[BiggestNoob]

Breaking news: People are bad at video games.

More breaking news: Water is wet.

More news at 11.

I disagree. Water isn't wet. Water makes things wet. The definition of wet means to be covered or soaked with a liquid, but water can't cover or soak itself because it is a liquid.

[Immoralist]

Without any logs it is going to be difficult to actually answer why people are "so bad at this game" but from my experience getting my weekly ring upgrades on multiple characters I would join 725+ item level groups on Tuesday and enjoyed a 50%+ success rate.

My Guild has sold well over 100+ Heroic Archimonde carries so I can understand many players are facing frustration. I personally would not add a person under 725 item level to a PUG group I was running since I understand linking an achievement does not mean people are going to make a meaningful contribution so I just hope ilevel can carry.

I would offer two pieces of advice

#1 Try to get at least 720 item level and only join groups with a minimum item level of 720

#2 Try to join groups on Tuesday or Wednesday when people are just trying to get Archimonde done for the ring upgrade

Other than that with out a group its going to be rough.

Best of Luck

[trm90]

I've pugged H Archi almost 20 times now, both as a healer and DPS, and here are the things I consider the biggest problems:

1. Shadowfel Burst
2. Infernals and Shadows not dying
3. Healing CDs not used liberally enough
4. Vague or unclear Nether groups.

1. and 2. are easily fixed by telling people to wake the f. up. For SFBs, people outgear the encounter so hard that Phase 2 comes much faster than people realise.

3. is fixed by simply reminding the healers to use CDs during shackles and later again during Rains of Chaos

For 4., I would NOT recommend throwing all DPS in the first Nether. On paper it's a godlike strategy, in practice people fuck up the second nether and you end up with half the DPS + no healer inside.

It might help to pester the RL about these specifics if they haven't already. H Archi is a cakewalk with mythic geared raiders, but you will always have much lazier raiders who forget about one of the four points above and the pull gradually descends to a wipe.

[Djriff]

Yolo banish groups are the best though. Especially when only 2 people stand in it and the boss heals back to a previous phase so you have to do it all over again. Fun times.

[Sylvaeres]

woah woah woah, dont have time to do that when im busy bitching on the forums

lolol thank you for this. My exact sentiments. I killed H Arch in a pug in week 5 of 6.2 and still to this day don't understand how people can fail miserably and yet not put forth the effort to make their own group. Give everyone a 1 strike group. Someone fucks up, kick them mid fight and forget they exist

[orca2425]

Draneor -is over legion is coming can we start taking about those fights now!!!

Infracted

[Fistfury]

I am 13/13 myself and still having issues getting into good groups my 722 mage. I get declined in most 725+ and actually the only way to get into a decent one is asking my 740+ friends to come help. It's quite sad indeed..

On the other hand pugs can disband any given moment after a wipe so most hosts would rather be safe than sorry.

Yeah, it's pathetic. I'm far from a cutting edge player - but my main is 11/13M, and my tank alt is 13/13H and 725 ilvl with ring - and I get declined from Heroic Arch groups a lot still. Pugging is really not the way to go, it never has been outside of established pugs that run regularly.