BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Slant]

Not looking at outliers that barely lasted a few years, also look at the French border, the Germans used to define Germany by language and culture (and by not being part of France) anyway, the French defined France as their kingdom.

Yeah, so? We still came from the same kingdom. And while France became a proper kingdom, Germany splintered up into countless duchies, kingdoms and counties. A moving border in the past 1000 years is inevitable when you have one unit vs. many fragments. And not all the time it was due to conquest, although that was naturally a part of it.

And to be honest, I don't even know why we're talking about it... I haven't read the last two pages. :P

What gives?

[Noradin]

Yeah, so? We still came from the same kingdom. And while France became a proper kingdom, Germany splintered up into countless duchies, kingdoms and counties. A moving border in the past 1000 years is inevitable when you have one unit vs. many fragments. And not all the time it was due to conquest, although that was naturally a part of it.

And to be honest, I don't even know why we're talking about it... I haven't read the last two pages. :P

What gives?

Just pointed out that despite "France always losing against the Germans" the trend for as long as those two existed was always "France" gaining lands from "Germany". That is a bit inconsistent with France supposedly "always losing" against them, isn't it?

[caervek]

Nissan suing Vote Leave for using their logo in their campaign material.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7091556.html

Dunno why, if Brexit happens then Nissan will "leave" the UK lol.

[Macaquerie]

Just pointed out that despite "France always losing against the Germans" the trend for as long as those two existed was always "France" gaining lands from "Germany".

Well "France" only existed because a bunch of people from Germany took over Roman Gaul and put their own name on it.

[Noradin]

Dunno why, if Brexit happens then Nissan will "leave" the UK lol.

Would you be ok for me publicly claiming you support whatever agenda I might come up with despite me knowing full well I never even asked or worse knowing you'd oppose it?

[Slant]

Just pointed out that despite "France always losing against the Germans" the trend for as long as those two existed was always "France" gaining lands from "Germany". That is a bit inconsistent with France supposedly "always losing" against them, isn't it?

To be fair, the land gain is insignificant if you look at a time span of 1000 years, don't you agree? Heck, whole empires have risen and fallen in shorter periods of time than that.

[Deleted]

Look at a map, did or didn't the border between Germany and France always move east during the last thousand years ever since they seperated into Austrasia (the original "Austria") and Neustria.

Well, remember that 1000 years ago all these lands were basically the "Frankish Empire". The division of the crown was done in 870 A.D.



What you call "Germany" instead was the result of the wars of unification done by Prussia in the XIX century.

The only "eastward" movement of France were basically the annexation of Savoy (1860) with a plebiscite, and the Alsace-Lorraine situation with Germany.

[Noradin]

Well "France" only existed because a bunch of people from Germany took over Roman Gaul and put their own name on it.

Those weren't "from Germany" though, because neither France nor Germany existed back then. Those people you speak of are just as much "German" as they are "French".

[Mayhem]

And to be honest, I don't even know why we're talking about it... I haven't read the last two pages. :P

Dribbles ignoring everything about history apart from the last hm not even 150 years.

[Slant]

Well "France" only existed because a bunch of people from Germany took over Roman Gaul and put their own name on it.

That's a rather simplistic view of history... Might as well say Germany only existed because the Romans were too lazy to translate properly.

[Noradin]

Well, remember that 1000 years ago all these lands were basically the "Frankish Empire". The division of the crown was done in 870 A.D.



What you call "Germany" instead was the result of the wars of unification done by Prussia in the XIX century.

The only "eastward" movement of France were basically the annexation of Savoy (1860) with a plebiscite, and the Alsace-Lorraine situation with Germany.

What you (LeRoy) call "Germany" you mean. You are using the French defintion to define both, you should be using the French definition for the western part and the German on for the eastern part to get the true picture. The idea behind "Germany" did not suddenly come up when Prussia decided to try and realise it.

You could for example look at how the language border moved over the centuries. I know it is more work but it is necessary because the original definition of Germany was based on lanuage. Only after Prussia decided to appropriate it did that change.

[Slant]

Dribbles ignoring everything about history apart from the last hm not even 150 years.

I'm not even taking dribbles seriously.

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What you call "Germany" you mean. You are using the French defintion to define both, you should be using the French definition for the western part and the German on for the eastern part to get the true picture. The idea behind "Germany" did not suddenly come up when Prussia decided to try and realise it.

You could for example look at how the language border moved over the centuries. I know it is more work but it is necessary because the original definition of Germany was based on lanuage. Only after Prussia decided to appropriate it did that change.

Dude, you literally just agreed with him!

[dribbles]

Dribbles ignoring everything about history apart from the last hm not even 150 years.

That's a long enough time see evidence of French surrenders to Germany....would hate to think how many times they wave the white flag over 1500 years.

[Mayhem]

I'm not even taking dribbles seriously.

I was merely answering your question. ^^

[Slant]

Those weren't "from Germany" though, because neither France nor Germany existed back then. Those people you speak of are just as much "German" as they are "French".

Let's use "Franks" for pre-French/German split?

[Noradin]

Dude, you literally just agreed with him!

Better?
English pronouns are so inadequate and degenerated you always have to double check no one can misinterpret them.

[Mayhem]

That's a long enough time see evidence of French surrenders to Germany....would hate to think how many times they wave the white flag over 1500 years.

You should look it up, you´d be surprised.

[Slant]

That's a long enough time see evidence of French surrenders to Germany....would hate to think how many times they wave the white flag over 1500 years.

so, you literally ignore the bit that happened just before your 150 year time limit? You know, the bit where Napoleon buttraped Germany? Twice? Come on, I know we all make jokes about France losing every war, but these guys want to talk history seriously, you might at least try to make an effort.

[Noradin]

Let's use "Franks" for pre-French/German split?

Sure, keep in mind though that they didn't speak French as the name suggests, nor did their speak German.

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We should go back to the topic at hand, the British might feel left out again and we do not want to give them more reasons to whine at us.

[Deleted]

Therein lies the problem though, France are always losing to the Germans.

2 Days to save the UK, 2 days to Vote Leave.

except France is happy with this - ?
the price for the reunification was the euro, a step towards the supranational state the french want.