BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Noradin]

KCTVMEDIA ?
They have an article that says "Is Merkel Hitlers daughter?" and ALOT of New world order shit going on.

Just another golden nugget from their site " luciferian agenda; conspiring globally to hide the past, open demonic portals, and wage war against the Saints."

You really tried to use a video from that site to support a rational thinking argument ?

This is why I do not click on youtube links anymore unless they are embedded in known, professional news sites or are from sources I trust.
Also: The title picture of that video...

[Deleted]

Betting odds heavily in favour of Remain.

Good.

See you Friday, Europe x

One can only hope.

Especially under a Conservative government, with all of Mr. Cameron's wonderful ideas for internet laws and shit. The EU protects your right to porn, people.

[minteK917]

Nothing wrong with a nation taking more command of its destiny if it so chooses. At the end of the day, the people will have spoken. Canadians will still shake our UK friends hands what ever they pick. To be honest if Canada was part of the EU, id vote out as well. EU has little to interest economically, i think it plays a bigger part in the Brexit for the anglo-saxon, then racism or refugee does.

[Noradin]

Go look up meps and how there elected into office and say i have a choice and you still do grasp the problem sure i might agree on some the the laws but i never voted those people into off to make those choices on my behalf in the first place

Yes, in every functioning democracy there are people others voted in...

[Mehrunes]

we are slaves to the EU because we disagreed with 2% of the laws the EU has passed! lolol

It's not a democracy unless UK gets their way 135% of the time or more.

[Deleted]

Hahaha... see, the funny bit is. They are. That's exactly why they're in the EU. If you take France and Germany out of the EU, they'd still be bigger than the UK. That's the point you're missing. And this is where the Empire ideology fails you. You still think in terms of "entitlement", "obligation", "deserving". You are not able to actually cooperate with other countries properly because you don't respect any other countries except when they throw their weight around like the US, France or Germany. Everyone else is just a piece of shit to you.

See, Germany and France work differently these days, we respect even fucking Finland, despite them barely scraping together enough citizens to fill Berlin, Munich and Hamburg. That's just three cities, ffs. Yet, when Finland calls for harsh measures against Greece, we listen to them. Because they are equal partners. And this is why the UK is so fucked up in this discussion. You're literally disrespecting everyone in the EU.

Don't expect nice treatment if you do exit. Expect a lot of small countries asking for blood. And Germany and France for once not standing in their way, I suppose.

Even more funny if you go look how member states vote. Nearly almost always do they agree with the UK, France and Germany. There's very little times where the smaller ones can't get an agreement with the bigger ones. I think the big disagreement was the one regarding Greece. Belgium, Netherlands found evidence that Greece's financially state was much worse than it was and that their numbers were falsified.

Guess who vetod a committee to go research their financial state? The UK, France and Germany, because not so short before them entering the EU they secured a lot of investments and they were so afraid that it would be worth nothing if Greece didn't enter the EU within the foreseeable future.

[Mehrunes]

Complaints and exceptions?

Exceptions would be an import tbh. So complaints and tears?

[Deleted]

This is why I do not click on youtube links anymore unless they are embedded in known, professional news sites or are from sources I trust.
Also: The title picture of that video...

It just leaves me gobsmacked when someone posts a video from a site like that. I can't understand how someone thinks it's a rational somewhat unbiased opinion from a credible source.

Think i'm going to adopt your stance on the matter.

[Mehrunes]

The officials are elected, stop repeating that nonsense. And everyone has a law to influence laws. In fact, the UK influences laws so heavily, they agree with like 90% of them.

And when it comes to implementation of directives UK often goes beyond the scope of the directive (Which they are free to do, the directive mandates a bare minimum countries need to do), then blames it on EU because they are oh, so restricted.

[caervek]

Germany, of course, did this under the paragon of the European Union.

In fairness they were using EU money not German money so were right to be acting as the EU.

[Deleted]

Ok, now this is just stupid. You don't vote for every single law in the UK either, even if the EU has nothing to do with it. My god, words cannot describe the mental judgement I'm giving you right now. That's all I'll say.

You dont understand that i want the people i vote in and other uk people have voted to represent use and the make laws on are behalf instead of people who are not elected by the british people that have power over the uk laws and no accountability for there actions ? if you dont understand that i cant make it anymore simple.

[Deleted]

Yes, they asked for something. And they didn't get it. And the appropriate action would be to make a new offer, which they did. Which got rejected as well. And this went on for quite a while until they miraculously offered the terms that the Germans asked for. This is how a negotiation works when one side has literally all the cards and the other side has literally nothing to bluff with except self destruction.

See, this is kinda like a Star Trek scenario where Kirk threatens to blow up the ship if the other side doesn't budge. Except the other side doesn't care. And Kirk knows it. But unlike in Star Trek, blowing up a ship doesn't mean there's a sequel with a new Enterprise... it means Greece is going to shits and people are going to actually starve.

So don't you go and blame this on Germany, accept the deal for what it is, a life line. And fucking take responsibility as a country for the fuckups you did. It's what we did after WW2 and look how it turned out.

Except the deal wasn't a life line but selling off national assets and economic ruin.

[caervek]

Hahaha... see, the funny bit is. They are.

No they are not, they are here because their EU (USSR) failed, because they need money, and because although they aren't really fit to be in the EU France/Germany wanted to increase the numbers and water down the UKs influence.

[minteK917]

Except the deal wasn't a life line but selling off national assets and slavery.

If Greece was its own country with a federal bank, it would probably have been better off. Thats the best part of all this. Economically the EU is just dragging a bunch of corpses, demanding them terms.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Also I don't know why you would think trade agreements predating EU would still be valid!!!

probably because Nigel Farage lied about it in an interview at some point, in-between waving a British passport around and defending racists in his party by suggesting people use racist words all the time to describe getting a chinese takeaway

[minteK917]

No but Britain will lose trade agreements with non-EU countries when they aren't part of the EU so they will have to renegotiate.

Also I don't know why you would think trade agreements predating EU would still be valid!!!

I dont think a country like the UK really is gona have problem negotiating with other countries on their own. It might actually be easier in many cases.

[thilicen]

So when will we know? Got around 500$ on Remain.

[Noradin]

Exceptions would be an import tbh. So complaints and tears?

I'm speaking about the exceptions, not about the returns on those exceptions (those would be imports, true).
The exceptions themselves are exported to the whole of the EU.

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In fairness they were using EU money not German money so were right to be acting as the EU.

They had used that up already. They needed further collaterals and looked at Germany to provide those.

[Mehrunes]

but the people make this decision, there is tha tlevel of transparency.

and when whoever you vote to goes to the EU, one you don't see what decisions they make, so you can't tell whether they are actually representing you (like no politician has never been shown to be a liar and untrustworthy, behind and infront of closed doors - do you trust that level of secrecy? I don't!) and even if they were, do you not see that when their decisions (representing yours) are not acceptable to everyone else in that room (individuals, not nations), there is squat you can do.

This is not the sort of leadership of government I want. Is that what you want?

EU legislative process is kinda transparent actually.

Another important point is we don't need to have all these concessions because we don't need to be in the EU, we can do well without the EU, and it's dubious whether we can do well in the EU. I'm not going to say hey.. I'm afraid to take the chance of being on my own, because I fear the economy might struggle more. Tha't snot good enough for me, more is at stake than the economy, my right to choose, are you trying to tell me that I'm not good enough to make decisions for myself or manage my trade or be successful in my business and industrial endeavours? Britain? who without the EU kicked off the industrial revolution?

That sounds like a logical and informed decision making process. And industrial revolution? Seriously, how is that even relevant nowadays? The geopolitical position of UK changed a fuckton since then.

If a Brit believes this then he really doesn't know who he is. If anyone believes they need the EU for that then they have no idea who they are.

God forbid people don't follow your flawed idea of what "muh sovereignty" is and your misinformed views of how the EU works (or UK for that matter). Traitors, that's what they are /s

if we want to trade with the EU, but you're not menitonign that they will have to accept our laws if they want to trade with us. That's how trading works, it's fear tactics to present an argument from that one side alone, as if curtailing the goods you sell to the EU by compling to their standards (laws as you put it) is some sort of hinderance .. this happens with any body you trade with, if i wanted to trade with Ghana I ahve to accept Ghanian trade laws, that doesn't mean i have to be a part of Ghana.

Ask Norway and Switzerland how many laws of theirs EU has to abide by.

Now with regards to my sovreignty which is where the key issue lies, I prefer to be free and make my own laws that are best for my people without hainvg a body push any law they want even if i agree with 2466 of them, it matters that 1 isn't good for me, it matters, because I should be able to choose what's right for me in my own country.

I don't need an EU to do that, so why should I let the EU body control me?

No thank you!

UK is a sovereign state. And yup, called it, UK not getting their way 100% of the time is an atrocity. God forbid ze mighty British Empire gets outvoted. So undemocratic. And on national level everyone is super happy with every single decision. UK citizens are drones apparently.

[Mehrunes]

How much do you think we will want if our government sticks 100% uplift in tax/tariffs on all German goods and zero rates japanese stuff?

Good luck with trade war against Germany, because trade war with the entire EU will follow. And weirdly enough, Japan said they are not interested in post-Brexit-UK. Even if they were, good luck replacing over 40% of your trade with just Japan. Or good luck doing that in general.