BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Kalis]

No it isn't, millions died for our right to vote, we've got this thing called the Internet and libraries etc to get informed, there are no excuses for apathy.

Abstaining for whatever reason is also a right.

[tehealadin]

i'd vote leave as it seems Germany is the true power behind it all, pulling all the strings.

something about two wars to stop that and all...

Is that really a bad thing? That we just accept that things would be better if we just submitted to ze Germans? They get shit done.

[DarkAmbient]

I will be voting to Leave. We do not need political union to trade with each other.

[Slant]

We were absolutely fine before joining the EU, we will be fine after leaving it.
The Netherlands thrives on export (flowers, fruits, fish, etc.) mainly OUTSIDE the EU and Tourism. Both will be perfectly fine without, maybe even better (EU export embargo for fruit to Russia nearly killed off our fruit sector for example).

What did the EU really do for us? Fuck us over with dumb immigration laws, made everything relatively (way) more expensive with the introduction of the Euro and giving our money away to sinkholes like Greece.

Greeks are Europeans. They're our friends. I'm always surprised at the amount of egoism displayed here. A little shit country like the Netherlands that gets run over everytime Germany and France have a row with each other should be most aware of how much friendship to smaller countries means. And Greece is the main player in protecting your sorry ass from refugee waves. You don't like immigrants? Perhaps respect Greece a bit more then? Because they help you out more than you help them. It's Germany and France paying for them, not the Dutch. Don't kid yourself.

[Deleted]

Is that really a bad thing? That we just accept that things would be better if we just submitted to ze Germans? They get shit done.

they also almost single handedly created the current migrant issue. but they do sure get things done

[veehro]

Remain. No rational case has been made to leave, only vague promises without substance and general scaremongering and xenophobia.

And if you think taking in a few tens of thousands of migrants is an issue, just wait until those two million Brits who live in the EU get deported back to the UK. Most of whom are retired and not especially wealthy.

If we leave the EU we're going to be mortally wounded as a country and leave ourselves vulnerable to extremists within our own government.

LOL wanting legal migration rather then uncontrolled massive economic migration is now xenophobia is it?
Well where do I sign up because I would rather be xenophobic and rational rather then emotional and dumb.

The reason we have borders is because of the welfare system. The medical care, benefits and education are not free. They are paid by the people through taxation.
Now if you're going to bring millions of other people who benefit for this but never paid into the system, you will eventually cause the system to collapse.

Also why is it that its only xenophobia when its against muslims? But when the people of Ukraine Donetsk region were seeking asylum in germany they were turned away

And why is it bad if i believe my country has better values then other countries? Secularism is awesome. Equal rights for men and women is amazing. And free speech is the shit.

So when I see religious conservatives that are from a far right movment (islamists) being allowed to have their hate speech it makes me annoyed. And btw I am talking about ISLAMISTS not muslims. An islamist is an ideologue who politicises islam such as these gents
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/st...282/440506.jpg

This is why normal imigration is awesome. You actually have to study the laws and history of the country before you move there.
Its a standard applied everywhere in the world.
And if id have to go to Saudi Arabia and imigrate there...I would have to do the exact same thing. Move there LEGALLY.

[Slant]

Abstaining for whatever reason is also a right.

It's also a valid expression of opinion. You should never have to vote for either side if you think it's bullshit either way.

- - - Updated - - -

they also almost single handedly created the current migrant issue. but they do sure get things done

Yes, we're also dealing with the brunt of it. It's not like we ask other countries to do what we're not prepared to do ourselves.

[tehealadin]

It's also a valid expression of opinion. You should never have to vote for either side if you think it's bullshit either way.

I'd argue that you should show up and spoil the paper, at least you took part in the process.

[Slant]

I'd argue that you should show up and spoil the paper, at least you took part in the process.

LOL, it's a valid opinion if you ask me.

Personally, I'd prefer Britain to stay in, but heck, if they really want out... it's their right. I still think it's silly, because politicians in the UK aren't any better than in Brussels, but heck... you do have the right to choose who buttfucks you.

[Deleted]

I'd argue that you should show up and spoil the paper, at least you took part in the process.

its something id personally prefer. I think it should be written in law that you have to vote, but there is an option for "none/abstain" so we can actually see the true public reflection in voting processes

[Deleted]

they also almost single handedly created the current migrant issue. but they do sure get things done

^^this, world war 3 without firing a bullet, hats off !

[Deleted]

LOL, it's a valid opinion if you ask me.

Personally, I'd prefer Britain to stay in, but heck, if they really want out... it's their right. I still think it's silly, because politicians in the UK aren't any better than in Brussels, but heck... you do have the right to choose who buttfucks you.

that we do. My hope, is that if we do leave, it will force the EU to actually reform the way it needs to be rather than carrying on regardless. there are a lot of people unhappy with the EU across Europe and they dont really give a shit about it.

Maybe losing one of their biggest net contributors will make them think about how they are operating and make some changes for the good rather than pandering to French/German interests

[Slant]

I know it was a century long process for the common people to secure a vote, but millions dying in the process is a new idea to me. Do you a source for this millions died claim?

My guess is he thinks Nazi Germany would abolish general elections for politics. History probably would agree with him.

[Paklaaji]

And Greece is the main player in protecting your sorry ass from refugee waves.

Lies. They are simply a springboard. An no, they are not ''our'' friends. I don`t care about the Greeks. The feeling is mutual. Our national interests are vastly different and we share nothing in common - except for the skin-tone and Christian legacy.

[feacs]

me and the mrs voting Leave.

[Deleted]

Greeks are Europeans. They're our friends. I'm always surprised at the amount of egoism displayed here.

I'm not having a go at the Greek people, i'm having a go and the through and through corrupt Greek government. We threw billions at them, what changed? Almost nothing, they need more money. All those billions disappeared into nothing.

A little shit country like the Netherlands that gets run over everytime Germany and France have a row with each other should be most aware of how much friendship to smaller countries means.

A little shit country? You are borderline trolling here, like Germany invading us is even a threat nowadays.

And Greece is the main player in protecting your sorry ass from refugee waves. You don't like immigrants? Perhaps respect Greece a bit more then? Because they help you out more than you help them.

Refugee waves that head this way because the weak-ass EU accepts them all in. Also, talking about respect and calling another country "a little shit country" in the same post, well done. Also, Greece has done shit nothing to stop refugees coming this way, so maybe stop talking out of your ass. It's mainly Turkey that has stopped a lot of refugee waves, not Greece.

It's Germany and France paying for them, not the Dutch. Don't kid yourself.

Trolling again, the Netherlands pays MOST to the EU per citizen (not total, average per citizen), 2-3 times as much as other countries per citizen.

[Slant]

that we do. My hope, is that if we do leave, it will force the EU to actually reform the way it needs to be rather than carrying on regardless. there are a lot of people unhappy with the EU across Europe and they dont really give a shit about it.

Maybe losing one of their biggest net contributors will make them think about how they are operating and make some changes for the good rather than pandering to French/German interests

The more you enforce the democracy you're thinking about, the more power you're giving to Germany and France, who both have higher population, higher landmass, higher contribution, bigger economies. Heck, they outperform Britain in almost all measureable metrics that could have an influence on voting weights. The first thing you'd have to get rid of is the veto system. Is that really what you want to force the EU to do? Reform into yet more democracy? Be careful what you ask for...

[Slant]

Lies. They are simply a springboard. An no, they are not ''our'' friends. I don`t care about the Greeks. The feeling is mutual. Our national interests are vastly different and we share nothing in common - except for the skin-tone and Christian legacy.

They are the ones hosting thousands and thousands of refugees, despite a major economic crisis. You should respect them for that if nothing else. They're doing the dirty work for you, and they are not complaining one bit. Unlike you.

[Venaliter]

And here comes the Islamophobe with his al-quaeda style hi-jacking of the thread....

I have a trained attack camel, and I will USE IT. :P

[Deleted]

snip

Edit: Misunderstood the context, but left the post :

The backlash from leaving EU will take years for Great Britain, all of those deals and arrangements that were made and now have to be... remade will lock out Great Britain from European market decision making for years, not even talking about other things like viza's etc.
Also there might be some shit going down between scotts english ppl and welsh etc., not sure how the voting goes, there might be some requests for separate voting in each of GB's zones etc., this all takes money, time and takes some of the pressure of GB out of the global politics one way or another.