BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Tinch]

That is just a case of two people using the phrases "off the table" and "on the table" differently.

Slant uses "off the table" in the sense of "it does not need to be discussed, it would autmatically be part of the deal". that politican you quoted used "on the table" in the sense of "it is a package deal, so any proposal of a deal placed on the table would include it".
Both said the same really. If you put free trade on the table free movement comes along as a package deal. If you already agree that you want free trade and won't put that up for discussion ("not on the table"), then free movement isn't up for discussion either--since it is a package deal.

Well that is not how all of the major media outlets are interpreting it, and I don't interpret his actual comments that way either:

Speaking to BBC Newsnight, Sapin said: “When we negotiate with a country, a third party, Norway, Switzerland, to take countries that are very close, we discuss all subjects: under what conditions there is freedom of movement of people; freedom of movement of goods; of capital. That is something that is very important for the UK, with all the questions about financial services. So we discuss everything.

He added: “Everything will be on the table because Britain will make proposals, and we will negotiate all these aspects with a desire to come to an agreement. But we’re not there yet, until we have an official decision from the UK.”

[Noradin]

Switzerland has similar rights due to bilateral treaties, doesn't it?

Much more limited, but yes, they make good use off the ones they were granted.

[ati87]

This x100, Turkey should not even be considered for EU membership while they are militarily occupying part of an EU member.

Not really a occupation when the Greek side can just come to terms with the Turkish side for unification. Last time the Greek side voted against it while the Turkish side voted for.

Only thing the army is stopping is a forced unification, nothing more. Turkey is acting in it's full right as agreed upon when Cyprus became a intended country.

So again want the Turkish army out? then ask the Greek Cyprus leaders to convince their people to vote for unification if they ever have another referendum.

Its relevant because the next time you put a chicken in your oh so reliable German oven, perhaps you should consider next time you are replacing said oven if its appropriate where the design testing stage was carried out.

No this isn't bloody relevant, the actual Nazi's are the people using their scare tactics and not the germans (or EU) just because.

[Noradin]

I was responding to somebody who said that EU poliiticans have said freedom of movement was not up for discussion, the comments of the French Minister contradict that.

Yes, it is up for discussion--as a package deal with free trade etc..

[DarkAmbient]

Boris rules himself out of Tory leadership contest. Didn't see that coming.

[Tinch]

Well yeah. Isn't it obvious? And it's not insecurity. If the UK gets a better deal without being part of the EU, then the EU makes no sense. Can I live with you for free and eat your food? I won't pay anything but it's cool, because I am soverign.

Its not necessarily going to be a better deal. Supporters of the EU seem to think that the political union is a great thing, freedom of movement is a great thing, supremacy of EU law is a great thing.

We won't have any of those benefits. We just want an FTA that is beneficial for both the EU and the UK, simple as that.

[Slant]

Boris rules himself out of Tory leadership contest. Didn't see that coming.

Smart move. Now he can still claim victory without having to clean up the mess he produced. Best move he could've made. In 5-10 years he can go for PM again and refer to this as his politicial prowess. If he's a true politician, he'll have changed his opinion about the EU by then if it's politicially smart.

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Its not necessarily going to be a better deal. Supporters of the EU seem to think that the political union is a great thing, freedom of movement is a great thing, supremacy of EU law is a great thing.

We won't have any of those benefits. We just want an FTA that is beneficial for both the EU and the UK, simple as that.

Real world speaking here: If you want to sell goods to the EU, you will follow EU regulation. You're gaining nothing by this. Not a thing.

[Ravenblade]

Its relevant because the next time you put a chicken in your oh so reliable German oven, perhaps you should consider next time you are replacing said oven if its appropriate where the design testing stage was carried out.

Shamelessly playing the Nazi card now that you've run out of constructive arguments, eh? I guess I am now not even allowed to use my car's horn because it might have been "tested in a Stuka bomber" before...

[Tinch]

Real world speaking here: If you want to sell goods to the EU, you will follow EU regulation. You're gaining nothing by this. Not a thing.

Of course we will, just as we follow the regulations of any other nation we trade with on earth. Funny how we somehow manage to trade with them without free movement of people though, isn't it?

[Deleted]

Its not necessarily going to be a better deal. Supporters of the EU seem to think that the political union is a great thing, freedom of movement is a great thing, supremacy of EU law is a great thing.

We won't have any of those benefits. We just want an FTA that is beneficial for both the EU and the UK, simple as that.

So a cherry picked, better deal? Yeah, no. You are not Mexico or China. You are part of Europe no matter how much you pretend otherwise.

[Slant]

Of course we will, just as we follow the regulations of any other nation we trade with on earth. Funny how we somehow manage to trade with them without free movement of people though, isn't it?

Again, the EU is not the rest of the world. And the type of access you want is unprecedented outside the EU, too. How are you not seeing this?

[DarkAmbient]

Smart move. Now he can still claim victory without having to clean up the mess he produced. Best move he could've made. In 5-10 years he can go for PM again and refer to this as his politicial prowess. If he's a true politician, he'll have changed his opinion about the EU by then if it's politicially smart.

It's the only move he could have made. It's not what he wanted. It was a move born out of his own failure to put forward a coherent post-Brexit vision that tallied with his rhetoric during the referendum. Theresa May presents a more credible figure and I believe the party will eventually choose her.

[Tinch]

So when Boris joins the leave campaign he is an opportunist who is only doing it to become PM. When the campaign is over and he states he is not running for PM, he is now a spineless coward?

I am no fan of the guy but how could he win? Just reinforces some of the remain rhetoric that anyone who dares to disagree with them is automatically dishonest and has bad intentions.

[DarkAmbient]

Looks like he's leaving his mess to be cleared up by Theresa May, a Remain campaigner.

Can camp brexit get anymore spineless?

Michael Gove is standing.

[Slant]

It's the only move he could have made. It's not what he wanted. It was a move born out of his own failure to put forward a coherent post-Brexit vision that tallied with his rhetoric during the referendum. Theresa May presents a more credible figure and I believe the party will eventually choose her.

Isn't she a remainer saying the referendum holds and needs to be followed? Going to be interesting just how much she's going to invest into following that up in Parliament.

[Noradin]

There are lots of benefits from the war days, from the UK - chemotherapy, success in abdominal surgery, and from Germany reliably efficient ovens.

Ah that explains it, you have problems with the English language because if you read "oven" all you can think of is the one you have seen your mother use for baking.

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It's perfectly relevant when you put it in the context from which he quoted it.

An ad hominem attack?

[Cheerbleeder]

See the biggest problem is most of you are focused on the past on "nazi Germany" hate to break it to you but that time is long over and living in the past isnt going to end well.

I hate to break it to you but you're wrong on every level. History is everything. ^This is why you're in denial at this moment. You simply do not get it.

[Deleted]

Because its in the mutual interest to reach a good deal. As has been said above, a significant percentage of exports of the most influential countries within the EU go to the UK.

Although according to many on here the EU is so insecure about it's institution that it has to intentionally make itself poorer to scare other nations from leaving it.

Again, the UK derive 13% of its GDP from exporting to the EU - The figure for the EU is 3% - One party has a better position than the other party.

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Except when its dealing with Mexico, Israel, Egypt etc?[/QUOTE]
Free trade is not the same think as the common market, i fear slant spoke poorly.

[DarkAmbient]

Isn't she a remainer saying the referendum holds and needs to be followed? Going to be interesting just how much she's going to invest into following that up in Parliament.

She is a Remainer, but she was deliberately low-key throughout the campaign, precisely because she anticipated the current situation. Very shrewd lady. And she stated very clearly in her leadership announcement "Brexit means Brexit. The UK is going to leave the EU".

[Slant]

I hate to break it to you but you're wrong on every level. History is everything. ^This is why you're in denial at this moment. You simply do not get it.

Oh, please do educate us. What's Germany like these days based on history...