BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Deleted]

I would've preferred a response grounded in some sort of reality. Considering his current position and the make-up of the UK political system what would you have expected him to do from here?

The UK has not left yet, so he has done virtually nothing as of yet. Saying that his political ambition has been achieved is just an empty excuse.

He could
- see it through!
- be the valiant defender/representative of the Leave voters, now that everyone has abandoned ship
- bash the UK parliament for not voting on the matter and legitimazing the referendum
- urge Cameron to invoke Art. 50 asap
- attract voters and campaign to be the Brexit prime minister
- do something worthwhile against "backsliding"

[caervek]

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/03/remembering-iraq/

Aww, you Googled it and pasted the first result instead of reading more sources and realising the were multiple polls and most showed public opposition, how cute.

Here's another good page on it: https://www.ipsos-mori.com/newsevent...War-Polls.aspx

[Seezer]

You're like a caricature. Nigel Farrage is a fucking conman, an ex-banker who helped cause the economic instabilities he nows blames on the EU. I don't understand why all the blue collar workers have such a hardon for him.

Being in the EU is in the benefit of the British people, both economically and civilly, thanks to the large number of checks and balances from Brussels.

People love phonies who talk tough. People love those who spout off empty headlines and not much else. But people are going to learn the hard way that listening to people like this, especially in a mob like mentality has dire consequences.

People love to have a chosen side. It's dramatic. But having a divided country means having a weakened country. And that plays right into their enemies hands. And all the other shit is secondary to that. So if people really cared about their country, they would strive to keep it united. Not divided.

[fled]

Nope - It was always meant to have a political component.
Always.

No see you were a problem - Like the Row about the rebate (a problem the French predicted) Or all those times the UK simply went all imperial (i.e threw gravel in the Euro machinery for sole point of appearing strong domestically) - the UK's many dusts with France over policy, Or the current fuck-up.
And it wasn't My argument - It was the French state's argument.

- - - Updated - - -



You have mixed two things up, 20% of German industry revenue is not 20% GDP.

I stand corrected. It is actually closer to 13-14% GDP.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answ...ive-sector.asp

[Deleted]

People love phonies who talk tough. People love those who spout off empty headlines and not much else. But people are going to learn the hard way that listening to people like this, especially in a mob like mentality has dire consequences.

People love to have a chosen side. It's dramatic. But having a divided country means having a weakened country. And that plays right into their enemies hands. And all the other shit is secondary to that. So if people really cared about their country, they would strive to keep it united. Not divided.

Funnily enough, this exactly what the single UKIP MP has said today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468 (2nd video down)

[Mehrunes]

Correct, it wasn't until the EU was converted into the EU in 1992 (against the will of the people of the UK) that everything went downhill. If it was still the EEC the would never have been a Brexit.

Not only was it political from the beginning as GoblinP already said, let alone at the time UK joined and was constantly evolving more towards that direction, UK pushed for that even harder when they joined, which is why they supported SEA and Maastricht Treaty. Without the UK giving it a green light there would be no EU.

[Kalis]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...itical-turmoil

What is with your exit people and quitting... did they really think that there was no work to be done after?

You can level that at Boris, but Farage is an MEP and so he has no real say on how things progress in Westminster.

Gotta say though, gotta love the UK on fire during the 4th.

Eh?

[Seezer]

Funnily enough, this exactly what the single UKIP MP has said today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468 (2nd video down)

Because it's true. And you can see it in the US as well. Politics fucks people up mentally. It is so easy to whip people into an angry, political frenzy. Doing that is irresponsible and makes you ineligible morally to make any decision that affects so many people.

[ati87]

Because it's true. And you can see it in the US as well. Politics fucks people up mentally. It is so easy to whip people into an angry, political frenzy. Doing that is irresponsible and makes you ineligible morally to make any decision that affects so many people.

Sorry thought but we are passed the era where we received all of our news from newspapers and tv. We have internet now which frankly is good at debunking the BS stories politicians come up with to win elections.

With the Brexit story for example, every bloody talking point they had was debunked a thousand freaking times but the pro Brexit camp literately said ''no because XYZ'' and what happened less then 24h after the referendum, the Brexit camp said ''yes we shouldn't have said all of those things because we can't promise them''.

Even now people are still using those talking points even though the asshole that came up with them already backtracked.

[Vankrys]

brexit is happening. For better or worse, it is now unavoidable. All leaders of europe have spoken, they want a clean and swift UK exit from the EU. Hollande said something like 'the people of britain have spoken in a free and democratic way, there is no turning back'.

Like i said, for better or worse, the people of britain have chosen their fate.

[Kallisto]

That and the largest public demonstrations/protests in our nation's entire history :P

So what. If 2 million protested there is over 60 million that didn't. Not saying all 60 million were for the war, but to say the protestors showed majority against you'd need about 30M+ protestors (Which is I admit impossible.)

[ranzino]

brexit is happening. For better or worse, it is now unavoidable. All leaders of europe have spoken, they want a clean and swift UK exit from the EU. Hollande said something like 'the people of britain have spoken in a free and democratic way, there is no turning back'.

Like i said, for better or worse, the people of britain have chosen their fate.

Hollande and every other politician outside of UK is not entitled to interpret the referendum.

[Deleted]

Hollande and every other politician outside of UK is not entitled to interpret the referendum.

and thats whats annoying EU politicians the most, currently there is no legislation in place that allows the EU to kick the UK out, they can moan and shout all they want, but ultimately its only that UK PM that can start the leaving process.

i might be wrong, if i am feel free to correct me

[Deleted]

and thats whats annoying EU politicians the most, currently there is no legislation in place that allows the EU to kick the UK out, they can moan and shout all they want, but ultimately its only that UK PM that can start the leaving process.

i might be wrong, if i am feel free to correct me

What annoys the eu is Cameron saying "lol ain't touching that, do all the hard work then hand it over in 2020 when i'm gonna retire anyway." I would do the same. TBH, one good think came out of brexit, and that's exposing our 2 main parties of how crap they really are.

[Cosmic Janitor]

We have also had referendums in Scotland carried out under the authority of Westminster.


Edit: Apparently we have had 11.

Might be just me, but that is like calling a Bavarian referendum about some pointless airport a German one. Can you even vote in these if you aren't from the area? I'd think at least for the Irish and Scottish independence ones you certainly can't, can you?

[Noradin]

The UK is a Parliamentary Democracy, which is a type of democracy and also means that sometimes Parliament acts against public opinion.

However this thread is about Brexit and Westminster has never acted against the results of a referendum, the public being against the Iraq invasion was only ever based on polling.

Are you caervek or do you want to take over their argument for them or is it just that you didn't read the post you quoted properly and missed the pronoun used to address the person I responded to?

[Kalis]

Might be just me, but that is like calling a Bavarian referendum about some pointless airport a German one. Can you even vote in these if you aren't from the area? I'd think at least for the Irish and Scottish independence ones you certainly can't, can you?

Referendums are done under the authority of Westminster, we have had 11 of them and all have been implemented based on the vote results. That they are not all national ones does not dispute my point that that Westminster has never acted against the results of a referendum.

It makes no difference who is eligible to vote in them, the fact that they explicitly derive their authority from Westminster is.

Are you caervek or do you want to take over their argument for them or is it just that you didn't read the post you quoted properly and missed the pronoun used to address the person I responded to?

If you want to have a private conversation, then go to PM, if you want anyone to be able to respond then post in public...which is what you did.

[Repefe]

The sad point is, disregarding the politics and egos, EU has strong competitors. US, China, India, South America ... and who knows who is going to emerge next. And states like UK in Europe don't think it's Europe against the rest of the world ... they see themselves and their standard of living, and that's it. Heavens should crumble if their standard of living should lower to level of ppl from the rest of Europe ... ppl who still qualify as being the blessed ones when it comes to the situation in the world. That's not good enough for UK and they want to stand alone in the global fight.

What are the consequences ... once UK gets into trouble, the rest of the EU that sticked together will say ... fu. You didn't want to be part of our problem solving group, we won't help you now that you show weakness. When it will be Europe against the world, it will be without UK. The small island that tries to stand on its own.

[Koyoti]

and thats whats annoying EU politicians the most, currently there is no legislation in place that allows the EU to kick the UK out, they can moan and shout all they want, but ultimately its only that UK PM that can start the leaving process.

i might be wrong, if i am feel free to correct me

There is apparently a legal challenge being put together about that atm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36700350

It claims that an act of parliament is needed to allow the PM to invoke article 50 and that doing so without said act is illegal.

Whether they're right or not remains to be seen.

[Noradin]

If you want to have a private conversation, then go to PM, if you want anyone to be able to respond then post in public...which is what you did.

So you want to take over the argument? Great, maybe you could respond to the original question instead of answering the rethorical one?

I'll even repeat it for you with alternative wording so you do not have to look it up:
How come the democratically elected representatives of the UK allengedly made decisions against the will of the people repeatedly regarding the EU and its future? Don't your democratically elected representatives have any accountability to the people?

Why didn't you hold them accountable after the first time? After the second? Don't you have any control over your representatives?
And if you do not have any control over them how come you call yourself a democracy?


I think you do have a democracy, you as a people do have control over them (to a degree), and you let them make these decisions because you either didn't care enough or more likely you were actually okay with it and only now some of you have regrets when you were told you wouldn't get even more undeserved exceptions.

You cannot just hide behind the claim that "the politicans (of the UK) did it against our will" and blame the rest of the EU for allowing it and at the same time claim you are democratic and sovereign and the EU is not.

It doesn't work like that, and if you pretend not to be sovereign and not to be a democracy then you don't even meet the requirements for joining or being a member of the EU.