BREXIT - leave or remain?

[bufferunderrun]

That's exactly what he said he was going to do, so yes I would expect him to keep to his word and at least have a plan in place until a new leader is chosen.

The leave side has no authority to do anything at the moment. Some of the candidates for leader have begun to set out their vision for Brexit but they can't do anything while we have a lame duck PM sitting in office, what would you expect of them?

And the Leave campaign was a cross party group, they're not a 'side' in any political sense and will have wildly different views on what Brexit should look like. Why was anyone expecting a group of Labour, Tory, UKIP and Green party members to come up with a unified plan of what would happen next?

So you though that Cameron was gonna deal with the negotiation? are you for real?

[Tinch]

I don't know how British politics work. And you know what I mean. Everyone is laughing at the two biggest Leave supporters leaving their position, because they don't want to deal with it, not even accidently. If god forbid their party wins they would be at the helm when the ship goes down.

So I'm assuming you mean Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage? This has already been explained multiple times in this thread but I'll explain it here again.

1. Boris Johnson WANTED to run for PM. He was all set to launch his campaign until Michael Gove did him over and decided to run himself. Nevertheless he had every intention of running and certainly would have if he had the required support. Saying that he did it to not deal with the consequences is simply not true.

2. Nigel Farage has resigned as leader of UKIP and would have had no impact on the negotiations anyway. And like I said even if he miraculously was asked to be a part of the team, he has said he would be keen to get involved in the negotiations anyway.

I dislike both of them, but it doesn't mean we can simply make up why they have taken the decisions they have.

[Deleted]

Are you soft in the head? Is it really too difficult to understand the the current government needs to elect a new leader and it's impossible for that person to be either Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage.

I get that. But now imagine this situation.
Nigey is an officer on a ship. Nigey, using lies and misinformation, coaxes the passengers on said ship to set the ship on fire. Now the ship is on fire. Nigey backpedals on everything he said. Captain Cameron leaves the ship, because its on fire. Nigey jumps into the ocean because the ship is on fire. Nigey didn't expect the passengers to be so fukin stupid. Nigey should've stayed on the ship. The ship is on fire because Nigey wanted the ship on fire. Now Nigey left the ship because he doesn't like fire anymore.

[Tinch]

So you though that Cameron was gonna deal with the negotiation? are you for real?

No I'm not saying that. I am saying I thought he would at least have some semblance of a plan in place until a new leader is chosen.

[Deleted]

I dislike both of them, but it doesn't mean we can simply make up why they have taken the decisions they have.

Why else would Farage leave? He didn't even get what he wanted yet. There is still a lot to do. He just doesn'T want to actually do any of it. Because that means no MEP salary.

Alright on the Boris, but I don't buy it. I can't believe that any Leave politician actually wanted to win this.

- - - Updated - - -

No I'm not saying that. I am saying I thought he would at least have some semblance of a plan in place until a new leader is chosen.

So we are on the same page. Semblances of plans would've been good.
You want a plan from someone whose side lost, and we want plans from the winners.

[Noradin]

So literally nothing ever gets done?

Apparently.

[Rockyreg]

I get that. But now imagine this situation.
Nigey is an officer on a ship. Nigey, using lies and misinformation, coaxes the passengers on said ship to set the ship on fire. Now the ship is on fire. Nigey backpedals on everything he said. Captain Cameron leaves the ship, because its on fire. Nigey jumps into the ocean because the ship is on fire. Nigey didn't expect the passengers to be so fukin stupid. Nigey should've stayed on the ship. The ship is on fire because Nigey wanted the ship on fire. Now Nigey left the ship because he doesn't like fire anymore.

That's lovely story but I fail to see how it bears any relevance to the restrictions the the UK political system puts on 'Nigey's' ability to deal with said fire.

[Deleted]

That's lovely story but I fail to see how it bears any relevance to the restrictions the the UK political system puts on 'Nigey's' ability to deal with said fire.

If Nigey wanted to deal with said fire he would've at least tried to stay.

[Rockyreg]

If Nigey wanted to deal with said fire he would've at least tried to stay.

What if Nigey is deaf, dumb, blind, mute and has lost all his limbs?

[Deleted]

What if Nigey is deaf, dumb, blind, mute and has lost all his limbs?

That is still the description of a more capable man than Farage.

[Tinch]

So we are on the same page. Semblances of plans would've been good.
You want a plan from someone whose side lost, and we want plans from the winners.

The difference is one side has actually been in power for over a year and has all the levers of government to actually form the basis of a secession plan.

The other was an amalgamation of people from completely different parties who have completely different visions for what Brexit should look like.

[Deleted]

The difference is one side has actually been in power for over a year and has all the levers of government to actually form the basis of a secession plan.

The other was an amalgamation of people from completely different parties who have completely different visions for what Brexit should look like.

I see other differences. One side lost and didn't get what it wanted, so it left power to those that won.

The other side won, but didn't even have a vague seperate plan in case they did, because none of them even expected it.

[bufferunderrun]

No I'm not saying that. I am saying I thought he would at least have some semblance of a plan in place until a new leader is chosen.

why? he is the losing side the plan was to be expected from the winner, even if the brexit side is cross party the bare minimum was to have a contingent plan to deal with the political unrest post vote, i mean anyone sane was already aware that Cameron would have resigned in case brexit won.

[Rockyreg]

That is still the description of a more capable man than Farage.

That may well be the case, but it doesn't get away from the fact that it is impossible for him to do anything

[Noradin]

That may well be the case, but it doesn't get away from the fact that it is impossible for him to do anything

It isn't, you do not need to be a MP to advise politicans and make politics.

[Kronik85]

Guys we can stop fighting and panicing now. The BBC has just reported that Harry Styles is in the Lords today, no doubt as part of some project to unite the country and get i moving in one direction again.

On a more serious note Andrea Leadsom has come out as the first MP to grow a spine and has said she wants to remain in EU but negotiate a new deal.

[Tinch]

why? he is the losing side the plan was to be expected from the winner, even if the brexit side is cross party the bare minimum was to have a contingent plan to deal with the political unrest post vote, i mean anyone sane was already aware that Cameron would have resigned in case brexit won.

Because he is the Prime Minister of the UK and its his job to provide stability and ensure the smooth running of the country. He said before the referendum he would stay on and fulfill the wishes of the British people whatever they were. I wasn't expecting him to stay on through the negotiations, but you would at least expect him to show some kind of statesmanship until a new leader is elected.

It took a few days for his Chancellor to even come out of hiding and actually make a statement on brexit. The only person who is showing any kind of leadership and willingness to take control of the situation at the moment is Mark Carney.

[Rockyreg]

It isn't, you do not need to be a MP to advise politicans and make politics.

And I'm sure not being the leader of UKIP won't prevent him from having his say. Which is about all he could have done anyway considering UKIP only has one MP anyway

[rogueMatthias]

If Nigey wanted to deal with said fire he would've at least tried to stay.

There's literally NOTHING that Farage could do or accomplish by staying on. UKIP is going to have NO say in any other negotiations, no part of the country's leadership and, now that they've achieved their reason for being, UKIP has served its purpose and is done. What do you expect him to be doing "with said fire"?

Why else would Farage leave? He didn't even get what he wanted yet. There is still a lot to do. He just doesn'T want to actually do any of it. Because that means no MEP salary. Alright on the Boris, but I don't buy it. I can't believe that any Leave politician actually wanted to win this.

The Brexit will happen now, it's just a matter of time. Everyone in any position in power isn't questioning this - even Cameron resigned because he knew it's a done deal at this point. Sure, it's not "legally binding" as a vote, but from a political perspective it really is. As for Boris Johnson; it's been pretty clear what his plan was from the start, and that he's only resigned from the race as he was outmaneuvered by Grove. If you want to ignore the obivous and keep believing all this "none of the Brexit politicians even want to stay on" nonsense then go ahead. Hope it makes you feel better

So we are on the same page. Semblances of plans would've been good.
You want a plan from someone whose side lost, and we want plans from the winners.

I want plans from whoever's best at making plans. It's pretty embarrassing that the government had zero contingency plans for if the referendum went this way. They're meant to plan for different eventualities like this.

Because he is the Prime Minister of the UK and its his job to provide stability and ensure the smooth running of the country. He said before the referendum he would stay on and fulfill the wishes of the British people whatever they were. I wasn't expecting him to stay on through the negotiations, but you would at least expect him to show some kind of statesmanship until a new leader is elected.

This. Many people are in jobs where they don't like decisions that have been made around them. You don't just spit your dummy and refuse to work - you get on with shit and do your job.

[Tinch]

On a more serious note Andrea Leadsom has come out as the first MP to grow a spine and has said she wants to remain in EU but negotiate a new deal.

Where have you got that from? I highly doubt that is the case considering only yesterday she was stating she would invoke Article 50 before Christmas.