Artifacts : Lazy or Interesting?

[Lady Dragonheart]

I hate hunting down new weapons, in all honesty since they're so direly important to many class's gameplay and capability. The thought of having artifacts as a game mechanic is very fresh and intriguing. I like it.

[FelPlague]

People who want to see it as lazy will do so regardless, no matter what we say.
There is a lot of backend stuff that you don't get with models, the artifact progression and effects.
The quest content around them, etc.

There isn't simply some flatout reduction in the amount of work by potentially reducing the number of models, as they required other work in other areas.

"reducing the number of models" actuallty it has much much more, we will be getting about 300 unique weapon models, (1200 if you count recolours) from one expansion, and who knows we may get a 7th skin, or a 5th colour for each skin, and no expansion has had close to that really (other then vanilla but vanilla had 5 years of devolpment so... really you cant compare any expansion to how much was added in vanilla cause they had ALOT of preparing

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i dont like the idea of being stuck with a 2H as a holy paladin for the next 2 years

so basicly the same as every expansion? idk about you but i basicly allways used the same weapon through a whole expansion, wod i allways used staves, mop i allways used staves, cata i used staves, wrath i used staves, BC i used mainhand/offhand, vanilla i used staves

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I don't think they're lazy, yet not very interesting either.

However I do strongly dislike the fact that you only have one choice of weapon type per spec, i.e a dagger for shadow priests or fist weapon for elemental (I think that was it for ele).

ele gets a fist/shield, shadow preists use dagger and offhand

so yes its limiting... but really ele shamans allways used shields and either hammers of fists... so yes we will have a single wep type for 100% of the time, instead of 75% of the time like we used to

[Veeks]

To those not in the know, there ARE MORE THAN JUST artifact weapons. You actually get another upgradeable weapon of your choice from the starter quest that increases levels along with your main story quest progression, so off spec lvling isn't a pain with low level weapons.

[Xerra]

i dont like the idea of being stuck with a 2H as a holy paladin for the next 2 years

I always wanted to see a caster 2h mace for shamans and paladins, something really unique and different like caster fist weapons.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I always wanted to see a caster 2h mace for shamans and paladins, something really unique and different like caster fist weapons.

That wouldn't make much sense. It'd be difficult to cast while holding a large weapon.

[NotInTheFace0]

I always wanted to see a caster 2h mace for shamans and paladins, something really unique and different like caster fist weapons.

You know there's one in HFC, right? and there was one in Throne of Thunder

[Seezer]

Artifacts sound cool, but they'll get old after a few weeks. Blizzard had to put a ton of development time into these things. And just like WoD, they put dev time into the wrong things. Garrisons took a huge amount of development time. They seem so focused on finding new bells and whistles that they neglect content. I'd take new dungeons with every content patch over artifacts any day.

[Xerra]

You know there's one in HFC, right? and there was one in Throne of Thunder

So? That doesn't make it 'common' a few token weapons that you have to aim towards in raids doesn't really give something for those leveling up or to be out dated in a tier.

[Greenmagoo]

Personally more annoying.

[kurama]

I like them and they're interesting, but i just don't like how are managed for secondary specs, atm is better to level up another character instead to get 2 artifact weapons xD

[Eroginous]

So my friend and I have been discussing the artifact system in Legion; he isn't following it too closely, and his opinion of the system was that Blizzard was lazy in not making all sorts of weapons as had been done in previous expansions, and that not being able to get weapon drops diminishes the looting aspect of the game.

I am in the beta (level 107) and I've been following development pretty closely; my opinion is that I haven't really noticed not getting weapon drops at all, and the system is engaging enough for me to say that in whatever way Blizzard may be lazy in not making more weapons, they make up for in the work that was put into creating the system.

So, I was curious if anyone else felt like my friend, and also what do people think of the artifact system in general. I am not bashing his opinion; I don't agree with him but he's entitled to believe how he chooses...even if he's wrong

The concept of artifacts is certainly an interesting one - an item that is so powerful it serves as your weapon for the entirety of an expansion. It would be interesting to see them stick with this design moving forward, possibly even making it a thing players experience at level 10 or so (starting your artifact) in a future expansion after Legion. I think this is interesting because it opens up discussion about the possibility of gear being less of a 'carrot on a stick treadmill grind' and more of a progression tool. Everyone hates the fact that their toon resets it's progress every new tier of content, back to the point where 'this is really hard until I get most of the way geared again.' That's kind of a pointless way to design a game, imo.

The Legend of Zelda is one of the first RPGs to do 'RPG' correctly. The power you gain is relatively tempered against gating content, rather than being about feeling more powerful. For instance, many of the items you obtain in that game are keys to the path forward. You get the Hook Shot to traverse terrain gaps impossible to traverse before. You get the Magic Hammer to knock down posts that are blocking your way. You get the Flame Rod to trigger the magic lock on that hidden path. Aside from that, all these items can be used as weapons (and do a very good job of offering a variety of effects to make that fun) to combat your way through the world when they are not opening the way forward.

Now, do I think it's lazy design? Not the Artifact itself (they've gone to a lot of trouble making one for each spec of the game) but the way talents have been brought back and tacked on? Yeah, that's lazy. They got rid of incremental talents back in the day because they offered no meaningful choice or engaging game play. You just sank as many points as possible into them and that was the extent of your decision making/interaction with them.

Not sure why they decided to bring that back again, it's complete rubbish.

[Rikhart]

You kidding? Yeah we're lazy to make weapons so let's make frikkin 36 unique weapons with 4 models and 4 color options each, tied with quests to acquire each and frikkin talent trees attached with unique weapon abilities each.

Your friend has peanuts for brains if he thinks this is easier than making some random weapons.

Pretty much this.

[Deleted]

Its either lazy or interesting? lol cmon.

How about the option "i dont like it".

How in the world is it lazy?

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Your friend is ignorant. Your artifact power work through relics, which works the same way as before - through drops. There are a lot of skins for each weapon, and there are even recolors to fit your style/transmogrify.

Laziness is not an argument against them.

[Archibalde]

so basicly the same as every expansion? idk about you but i basicly allways used the same weapon through a whole expansion, wod i allways used staves, mop i allways used staves, cata i used staves, wrath i used staves, BC i used mainhand/offhand, vanilla i used staves

In this case it's a bit different. Holy Paladins generally use a 1-handed weapon and a shield. There have been a few 2-handed maces with intellect in the past, but they are very rare and never were the optimal weapons. The Silver Hand potentially messes up some people's favorite transmogrification sets since they won't be able to use their usual weapon and shield.

Plus, sometimes the weapon you'd want isn't going to be the weapon you'll get. My Shadow Priest and Elemental Shaman alts basically always used staves. I get a dagger and fist weapon in Legion. My Fury Warrior's transmog set that I've been using for 2 expansions now was based on two 1-handed weapons, Legion's Fury Artifact are 2-handed swords.

It's minor cosmetic stuff, obviously, but for some people this will be annoying. When you've essentially "set" your character's look and you know you won't be able to use the right weapon for an entire expansion, it's not great.

[Enthralled]

Not in the least bit lazy. Your friend is using a meme term without even thinking about what the implications are.

[Darkeon]

I'd say.. an interesting concept. But, to me, it will all make or break on the way they deal with this after the expansion is over.

[brob]

Has it been confirmed that the Fury artifact weapons in Legion are meant to be 2Handers but are just undersized models currently? I heard that somewhere and was REALLLLY hoping Fury wasn't gonna lose TG

they said they wanted them to be 1 and half in look. but they are twohanders still im pretty sure.

they just didnt it to look stupid like wielding two blackhand maces

[FelPlague]

In this case it's a bit different. Holy Paladins generally use a 1-handed weapon and a shield. There have been a few 2-handed maces with intellect in the past, but they are very rare and never were the optimal weapons. The Silver Hand potentially messes up some people's favorite transmogrification sets since they won't be able to use their usual weapon and shield.

Plus, sometimes the weapon you'd want isn't going to be the weapon you'll get. My Shadow Priest and Elemental Shaman alts basically always used staves. I get a dagger and fist weapon in Legion. My Fury Warrior's transmog set that I've been using for 2 expansions now was based on two 1-handed weapons, Legion's Fury Artifact are 2-handed swords.

It's minor cosmetic stuff, obviously, but for some people this will be annoying. When you've essentially "set" your character's look and you know you won't be able to use the right weapon for an entire expansion, it's not great.

they will be able to use a offhands, yes they wont be able to use shields, but i remember back in the days they used 2 handers, or wep/offhand, or wep/shield so... and there is alot of really cool 2 hander mogs for pallies to be fair... yes it does suck they cant use shields anymore, but we have to remember, you never in raiding whent " oh this item is 100% better then what i have... but i dont have a good mog to fit it... so im not going to use it" we have allways been forced into specicifc weapon types every expansion, this will just be the first time we are garunteed to use the same weapon type the whole expansion (even though as a lock i only used something other then a staff about 15% of the time)

[Aeriedk]

I personally find them interesting, but I'm also on the fence as I'm not sure they're going to work out. They may become "run of the mill quickly", but that doesn't necessarily mean Blizz was lazy. I honestly applaud them for being rather bold in this change. They haven't been bold very often in recent years and this gives me hopes for other bold changes.