When do you start to exist?

[Kathandira]

First you need to define Existence.

You could theoretically split existence into two categories. Physical Existence. For example, does my chair exist? certainly it does. Did it always exist as a chair? No, first it started out as a tree. That tree existed though. There are also screwed used to make up the physical existence of my chair. Before they were screws though, they were metal ore found in rocks. Through processing though, when the wood was fashioned into the pieces of the chair, and the metal ore was fashioned into the screws, were combined in a particular way, it gave way to the existence of my chair. It was not a chair prior to the combination of the parts though. The end of physical existence is when your physical being has deteriorated, or has been completely destroyed.

Then you have Conscious Existence. This would be awarded to living entities. Conscious existence would be a little more difficult to determine the moment of existence as you would need to know exactly when in the pregnancy period does the unborn child's brain begin to start making neural connections. This to me would be the beginning of conscious existence. The end of conscious existence would be when brain activity ceases.

- - - Updated - - -

To me it does.
Before you can't think, you're merely no different than a veggie.

The point I made in my comment above this quote would ask, "But doesn't the vegetable exist as well?"

This would require an additional question. Should we define what the state of existence is at different stages of creation?

[Stonecloak]

To me it does.
Before you can't think, you're merely no different than a veggie.

But a veggie exists, in the way we define it. If you're talking about when we can consciously understand when we exists that's a different story.

[Kathandira]

But a veggie exists, in the way we define it. If you're talking about when we can consciously understand when we exists that's a different story.

Exactly! Existence is not only conscious. There are non-living entities which surely do exist.

[Stonecloak]

Exactly! Existence is not only conscious. There are non-living entities which surely do exist.

There's many compelling arguments that our neurological experience messes with our perception of reality, which I can see, but in any case if we are partially creating the plant with our minds, there's still something there. Ourselves and the environment are existing in some capacity.

[Kathandira]

There's many compelling arguments that our neurological experience messes with our perception of reality, which I can see, but in any case if we are partially creating the plant with our minds, there's still something there. Ourselves and the environment are existing in some capacity.

You see what your brain interprets what you are seeing should look like. I can get down with that, it holds scientific theory in it. It is a biological fact that this is how it works.

Philosophically though it is similar to the debate over whether the Green Apple I see, is green to me. You might actually not see it as what I would call green, yet still call it green because that is what we are taught.

[kail]

Well going by your side of the argument, we're defining "you" as who you are now, what you've remembered and how you act, think, etc. In this case, I'd say you started existing as far back as you can personally remember. You don't have memories or experiences once in the womb and even for some years after you are born. You have very little control over your actions when you are a newborn, if anything you are running completely on innate instincts (cry when hungry and hurt, sleeping and learning the rest of the time).

You're still you, even in the belly, you're just at an earlier development. Every experience you have in the womb (sounds, trauma) will affect your life outside, so it's still you experiencing those things.

I don't know what you mean by that. It may affect you at that moment you experience them, but it has zero affect to you now. I doubt you remember all the Mozart your mother played in your nursery.

Human life begins at conception. The cells are programmed to become a human. It's a human in early development. The cells copying themselves 9 months before you're born is still you.

You existed before conception, as a sperm and an egg. We don't hold funerals for miscarriages, the gender isn't even known yet.

Similarly to how they argue that you're not the same person as you are as a fetus, I say that you're not the same you as you were a year ago. You've changed in cells and thoughts. I still argue that you were yourself, only at an earlier stage in life. They say that this is not the same thing.

You are based on what you experienced and how your brain functions. Some are just natural assholes or saints, others are affected by down syndrome or some form of autism. I doubt that much of what you experienced as a fetus - 2ish years old makes any difference to what you are now.

[Kathandira]

You existed before conception, as a sperm and an egg. We don't hold funerals for miscarriages, the gender isn't even known yet.

I would argue that.

The sperm and the egg exist as sperm and as an egg. The product of those things, creates the 'you' that now exists.

A chair is made up of wood and screws. Until the wood and screws are assembled into a chair, that chair did not exist.

[Khadgar]

your existence begins when the sperm and egg meet, there's even a flash of light that sparks at the very moment a human sperm cell makes contact with an egg.

Proof life begins at conception

[Kathandira]

How does a light flash mean that life begins at conception?

Never heard of the 'Spark of life'?

[Deleted]

Well, todays you is different from yesterdays you.
You don't start existing as a person when you are born, babies have no personality since it's more or less a collection of your experiences.
It's like a book with blank pages, unlimited potential but no content.

PS: If i extend your last point the atoms that make up my body now also have been me a few thousand years ago. They will be me so they are me?!

PPS: You are trying to argue about abortion that much is clear.

[Xkiller9000]

Imo, the very very beginning is when your mother is born, all of her eggs

[Kathandira]

Well, todays you is different from yesterdays you.
You don't start existing as a person when you are born, babies have no personality since it's more or less a collection of your experiences.
It's like a book with blank pages, unlimited potential but no content.

PS: If i extend your last point the atoms that make up my body now also have been me a few thousand years ago. They will be me so they are me?!

PPS: You are trying to argue about abortion that much is clear.

I think this is still going with Physical and Conscious existence being the same thing. They are separate things though. If a person becomes brain dead, do they no longer exist? I can still see them. I can still touch them. Therefore, they exist in a physical sense.

[Kathandira]

That's a concept. Has no actual meaning outside the mind.

I know, I was just kidding, lol. forgot the '/s'

[Reeve]

Human life begins at conception. The cells are programmed to become a human. It's a human in early development. The cells copying themselves 9 months before you're born is still you. (I'm still for abortion until the human becomes sentient so keep that discussion out of here please)

I'd say that the cells that cause to conception were also human life. The zygote is human life. The embryo is human life. None of those, however, are A human life. Where the cutoff is from when there's a ball of human cells one moment and an actual human the next, I don't know, but I feel pretty strongly that a ball of human cells is no more A human than a wart on my wrist.

[frogger237]

You don't get your soul till your like one, or maybe 6 months.

[Laerrus]

I believe I came into existence at the point of conception, rather, that is the point that my spirit fused with the cell that would go on to become my body.

I also believe in my own free agency and for everyone else's, so choose what YOU want to believe, as it is not really any of my concern, nor my business.

[lopus]

the problem is, people have different definitions of what is consider "YOU", so it does not matter who agrees or disagree in this contexts, only your beliefs matter.

[Bodmass]

*closes Tumblr*

Finally... I can exist.

[Jibjub]

Not sure how this is even a debate. You exist when you start to exist...

(to wit: you come into being, i.e. cells are multiplying as a living organism)

[proband]

From a biological point of view: the moment you have a complete set of chromosomes which happens when the egg cell and sperm cell fuse. At that point you have all the genetic material (both DNA level and epigenetic level) that make what you are.

But we tend to see men as more than just genetic information therefore I think that cogito ergo sum makes a lot of sense (even though Descartes thought about that in a different context) since we, from a personality point of view, are made of our habits, thoughts, memories etc, basically everything that isn't present when egg cell and sperm cell fuse.

That being said, finding the one perfect defition is quite hard. I'd say for outsiders (i.e. your parents, grandparents, older siblings..) the former definiton makes more sense as they can watch you grow (something that doesn't exist can't grow, no?) whilst the latter definition makes more sense for our personal idea of existing - I derive that from quotes such as "as long as I can remember" and the like.