When do you start to exist?

[prwraith]

I don't really think you as a person exist until you have active memorable thoughts. Until you can articulate yourself and remember / understand what happens around you, you're still gestating imo.

I mean do you remember anything from when you were 1? You may as well not have existed for all intents and purposes, you can't live on your own, understand anything, or act on anything that you'd ever know you did.

Similarly is the person who wakes up with total amnesia really the same person that became afflicted by total amnesia? Or are you imprinting upon the new personality when you tell them all about the previous inhabitant.

[Jibjub]

I don't really think you as a person exist until you have active memorable thoughts. Until you can articulate yourself and remember / understand what happens around you, you're still gestating imo.

So if someone loses this ability are they no longer human? See that danger in that line of thought?

Edit: sorry -- no longer a "person"

Edit 2: What if you temporary lose this ability? Are you temporarily no longer a person and are now, temporarily, without rights?

[melodramocracy]

Existence and living are two different things. Existence starts at conception, life (IMO) is about self sustainability... ie, once you're born.

[prwraith]

So if someone loses this ability are they no longer human? See that danger in that line of thought?

Edit: sorry -- no longer a "person"

Edit 2: What if you temporary lose this ability? Are you temporarily no longer a person and are now, temporarily, without rights?

I don't think your rights should ever be revoked. But it calls into questions whether or not YOU exist. And whether or not once that body regains the ability to remember and understand is it the same person?

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Existence and living are two different things. Existence starts at conception, life (IMO) is about self sustainability... ie, once you're born.

A new born is anything but self sustaining.

[Beloren]

In this world, it began for you at conception.

In the fabric of existence, you started when God first thought of you before things were formed.

[melodramocracy]

I don't think your rights should ever be revoked. But it calls into questions whether or not YOU exist. And whether or not once that body regains the ability to remember and understand is it the same person?

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A new born is anything but self sustaining.

Self sustaining along the lines of "you can breath on your own", rather than being a completely independent being.

[Scathbais]

Cogito ergo sum?

[Thresh1]

Thinking has nothing to do with existing. If a brain wave is required for you to be a person, then personhood starts at around 6 weeks into the gestation of a new human being.

[Illuminance]

Descartes' exercise was more about doubting as much as he could about reality and distilling it into the most basic essential truth he could come up with. He had a very narrow view on what he could or could not prove was real.

The point wasn't to take him too literally in all contexts, which might lead you think you cease to exist in a coma or when you are asleep.

[Thresh1]

Descartes' exercise was more about doubting as much as he could about reality and distilling it into the most basic essential truth he could come up with. He had a very narrow view on what he could or could not prove was real.

The point wasn't to take him too literally in all contexts, which might lead you think you cease to exist in a coma or when you are asleep.

Exactly, people can exist without the immediate capacity to think or doubt.

[Kurioxan]

Until your brain develops enough to retain information, form memories and develop a trace of personality. Until then you are a proto-human. This age varies between people, but around 4?

[Stormkhan]

So, babies and homeless people don't exist? What about alzheimers? What about people trapped in a sex dungeon, that aren't even known to be alive to the general public? Adding value (whatever that means) has nothing to do with existing...

It's like i said, you exist when you make a difference to someone by being there.

Alzheimer patients have loved ones who are emotionally connected to them - value.
sex slaves have value for owners.
Babies, same shiet.
homeless, indirect value - winning votes, jobs to keep them in check, etc.

So basically you exist when your existence has some sort of value, in whichever way conceivable. EC PC chicken sleezy. Also the opinion is very economically based. In one sentence I couldn't cover multiple fields of academics ;< but you get teh drift bruh D:

[Kraenen]

Thinking has nothing to do with existing. If a brain wave is required for you to be a person, then personhood starts at around 6 weeks into the gestation of a new human being.

Add to that the problem where kids don't pass the "mirror test" for self awareness until about 2-3 years.