Obama Legacy

[Reeve]

How so? It's comparing our GDP growth to similar countries. The economy is much more global than it ever been, obviously. It's important to keep things in perspective.

Sure it's good to keep things in perspective, but it's a very uncommon measure to use, and it doesn't really indicate that our growth was good, just that it wasn't as bad as the growth of other nations, who went through a far longer more protracted and deeper economic crisis than we did (which probably affected our growth rate as well).

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If the minimum wage increased with inflation, not just during Obama's term, those numbers would be considerably closer to the projected. The stock market has sky rocketed during the Obama's presidancy. Yet, the pay for workers had been stagnant. Perhaps, just perhaps, the GOP refusal to cut taxes on the middle class, without cuts to the top, isn't working. Perhaps, just perhaps, the GOP reliance on trickle down economics, isn't trickling down. Perhaps, just perhaps, giving workers more negotiating power would solve the corporate race to the bottom.

Minimum wage increases shouldn't affect the median.

I agree supply side economics don't work though, unless you're actually in an economy that lacks available investment capital. The US is lousy with massive surpluses in investment capital, though, and is far more in need of demand side growth.

[Felya]

Thanks to who I might ask? House Speaker Newt Gingrich

Then the current issues are the result of Mitch McConnel? Or are we in the land of giving credit to a republican closest to the presidancy for the good times, then blaming a democrat closest to the presidancy during bad times? The GOP didn't lose control of federal government when Clinton left, yet the deficit spiked almost immidietly. If what you are saying were true, there wouldn't have been the drastic spike when he left office.

[Ghostpanther]

Sure it's good to keep things in perspective, but it's a very uncommon measure to use, and it doesn't really indicate that our growth was good, just that it wasn't as bad as the growth of other nations, who went through a far longer more protracted and deeper economic crisis than we did (which probably affected our growth rate as well).

Very true. Perception when deception is used, is a strong political tool. But the median family income ( with inflation adjustment ) is lower than it was 15 years ago. That is not something which can be twisted by political deception. American's have less money per family to spend now than they did 15 years ago.

[Felya]

Minimum wage increases shouldn't affect the median.

But, it does. The median would have shifted up words, because the differance between bottom and top would be narrower.

[Lenonis]

Then the current issues are the result of Mitch McConnel? Or are we in the land of giving credit to a republican closest to the presidancy for the good times, then blaming a democrat closest to the presidancy during bad times? The GOP didn't lose control of federal government when Clinton left, yet the deficit spiked almost immidietly. If what you are saying were true, there wouldn't have been the drastic spike when he left office.

there is a tendency for people to blame (or credit) the president when their party has the white house and to blame (or credit) congress when their party isn't.

The reality tends to be more nuanced.

Either way people really need to get a better understanding of what is actually within the president's authority. You, in general, can give very little to the president directly. Gay marriage - Supreme Court. Budget deficit reduction -- Congress (budgets).

But, then, this would have to be applied to prior administrations as well.

[Felya]

Very true. Perception when deception is used, is a strong political tool. But the medium family income ( with inflation adjustment ) is lower than it was 15 years ago. That is not something which can be twisted by political deception. American's have less money per family to spend now than they did 15 years ago.

No, middle class Americans have less money. The top has seen as steady increase. Trickle down doesn't work...

[Plutarch78]

ACA
Bin ladan
gay marriage
greatest do nothing congress in history

1) Collosal failure.
2) Planning that began during Bush. Only to do nothing when ISIS rose to power.
3) Only because he's secretly gay himself.
4) This is not Russia. Congress is not a rubber stamp for a Presidents agenda.

You were saying?

[Reeve]

Very true. Perception when deception is used, is a strong political tool. But the median family income ( with inflation adjustment ) is lower than it was 15 years ago. That is not something which can be twisted by political deception. American's have less money per family to spend now than they did 15 years ago.

True. I'd argue that's mostly because of supply side economic policies, though. When you make capital gains taxes so low, people tend to take their earnings out of businesses instead of reinvesting them for more growth. And when the working poor has less money to spend, businesses tend to have less reason to grow.

[Ghostpanther]

No, middle class Americans have less money. The top has seen as steady increase. Trickle down doesn't work...

Good point, except the trickle down does work if the market and job growth is favorable. And the middle class pay a large majority of the taxes and also spend a lot.

[Vyxn]

Guess it's time to increase the minimum wage then eh?

no it is time to put a president in office that know what he fuck he is doing when it comes to the economy passing legislation that would allow us to have economic growth averaging above 3% so business will grow hire more and pay a higher wage
Not pass laws like Obama did that keeps businesses from hiring and cutting hours

[Lenonis]

3) Only because he's secretly gay himself.

Talk about a way to complete discredit yourself on these forums.

[Reeve]

But, it does. The median would have shifted up words, because the differance between bottom and top would be narrower.

Not necessarily. If I have a series like this:

2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12

And I change it to this:

4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12

The median remains 6. There might be some growth in the earnings that are just about the minimum wage, but I don't necessarily see it shifting the median all that far, except inasmuch as poorer people having more money may increase demand and therefore economic growth.

[Lenonis]

no it is time to put a president in office that know what he fuck he is doing when it comes to the economy passing legislation that would allow us to have economic growth averaging above 3% so business will grow hire more and pay a higher wage
Not pass laws like Obama did that keeps businesses from hiring and cutting hours

The president doesn't pass laws.

[Ghostpanther]

True. I'd argue that's mostly because of supply side economic policies, though. When you make capital gains taxes so low, people tend to take their earnings out of businesses instead of reinvesting them for more growth. And when the working poor has less money to spend, businesses tend to have less reason to grow.

I agree. Well said.

[Vyxn]

Good point, except the trickle down does work if the market and job growth is favorable. And the middle class pay a large majority of the taxes and also spend a lot.

median family income increased under Reagans trickle down and also under JFK when he cut taxes
history is bitch when it keeps proving you wrong isn't it
so I will ask you the same thing what is Obama excuse for having a average GDP growth at 1.6%
and a decrease in median family income

[alturic]

Not necessarily. If I have a series like this:

2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12

And I change it to this:

4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12

The median remains 6. There might be some growth in the earnings that are just about the minimum wage, but I don't necessarily see it shifting the median all that far, except inasmuch as poorer people having more money may increase demand and therefore economic growth.

It's early, but the median isn't 6 with both of those. Median doesn't simply mean the middle number, which is what it looks like your sequence is trying to say the median is still 6 for.

[Reeve]

The president doesn't pass laws.

The President often leads the legislative agenda for their party, and brokers deals on Capital Hill, though. And they do get that final say as to whether or not to veto.

[Vyxn]

The president doesn't pass laws.

he sure can introduce bills and lobby congress to pass them

[Ghostpanther]

The president doesn't pass laws.

Without his signature, they do not become law unless congress overrides his veto. Which is very hard to do. :P

[Reeve]

It's early, but the median isn't 6 with both of those. Median doesn't simply mean the middle number, which is what it looks like your sequence is trying to say the median is still 6 for.

Um, what? Yes it does. That's exactly what it means. It's the midpoint in a sample distribution.