The devs recognize that BRF came out too quickly ???????

[Myta]

BRF was released WAY too soon, most guilds never got Mar'gok down on mythic before BRF came out, based on what they're saying, it look there will be tier split between Emerald Nightmare and Nighthold, That will be the first tier, and they will space out the tiers so they aren't so clumped together and then a year+ drought at the end.

Perfect news, couldn't be happier.

[caervek]

Talk about being misleading rofl.

WotLK used a reused instance for the first tier raid.

And? it was a good raid and new for 99% of those doing it.

WotLK had 1 or 2 room raid instances: Malygos, Sartharion, Trial of the Crusader and Halion. Do you enjoy 1 room raids?

Yes, like most players I do, they are a staple of the game and allow for additional raids with a single epic encounter and a cool theme. Hell Malygos and Sarth were both more fun that the whole of Highmaul.

[Ryzek]

I did feel BRF came out too soon.

[Huggykaze]

Too quickly for who, actually? For mythic raiders? Surely it wasn't. For heroic raiders? Same stuff.

Highmaul still had a lot of life in it, and a lot of guilds progressed/farmed these two simultaneously :P

[Sapphire35]

What kills me is they said they wouldn't do this again after they did the same thing with Mists. I'm normally a Blizzard white knight too.

[dd614]

It should either have been at the same time as highmaul (with roughly equal gear) or it should have been delayed even further. It made highmaul irrelevant and because of that it felt like a seperate tier and I personally would have preferred for it to come later, yeah.

That's the problem. It made Highmaul pretty much irrelevant way too soon.

[La]

Then maybe they should have given Highmaul more bosses and made it an ACTUAL raid tier, with tier sets, instead of having it be the filler before BRF (which was basically already done and mostly tested at this point, months earlier)

Did they learn a lesson there? That seems to be the more important one.

[Raiju]

Then maybe they should have given Highmaul more bosses and made it an ACTUAL raid tier, with tier sets, instead of having it be the filler before BRF (which was basically already done and mostly tested at this point, months earlier)

Did they learn a lesson there? That seems to be the more important one.

7 bosses is fine for lasting 4 months.

[Rosstafa]

WoD raids were certainly a lot better spaced than MoP, but I think another 2-4 weeks of Highmaul would have been good.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It was too soon from a certain point of view. Although I was under the impression that they were suppose to be kinda the same tier in the original vision for WoD. A lot like MSV, HoF, and that other one were in MoP when it released. They came at a staggered rate, each was a little harder on paper, but in the end kind of on the same level as the same tier. But they bailed on WoD. At least that is what I felt. Not sure if it was because WoD "sucked" or if they were still obsessed with "yearly expansion releases". So it as a raid got stuck in a serious in between those two philosophies in my opinion. So it came out a bit to late to satisfy the original plan of them being one tier and then was morphed (item level bump) and extended (time) to satisfy the later plan to make it is own stand alone tier. But the compromise really meant it was in a poor spot for really both situations.

[FobManX]

They should have made Highmaul its own tier as someone else said and a little bit longer. Then release BRF about a month or two later, lets say around March/April, and push HFC to like late August/early September ish.

[Gorsameth]

It was too soon from a certain point of view. Although I was under the impression that they were suppose to be kinda the same tier in the original vision for WoD. A lot like MSV, HoF, and that other one were in MoP when it released. They came at a staggered rate, each was a little harder on paper, but in the end kind of on the same level as the same tier. But they bailed on WoD. At least that is what I felt. Not sure if it was because WoD "sucked" or if they were still obsessed with "yearly expansion releases". So it as a raid got stuck in a serious in between those two philosophies in my opinion. So it came out a bit to late to satisfy the original plan of them being one tier and then was morphed (item level bump) and extended (time) to satisfy the later plan to make it is own stand alone tier. But the compromise really meant it was in a poor spot for really both situations.

First tier of MoP suffered from the same core problem, no one ran MSV once HoF was out.
Because the ilvl across the different raids are not the same one will invalidate the other.

HM became mostly useless when BRF was released because of ilvl and tier sets so you want people to have fully experienced HM before you release BRF.

Either have the same ilvl and spread out tier pieces (say 2 in HM, 3 in BRF) so the raid is not invalidated or increase the gap so much that you might aswell make the first raid its own tier.

I highly prefer the Wotlk/Cata situation in which multiple raids with the same ilvl released at the same time
This staggered release with higher ilvl is garbage.

[Osmeric]

I think they saw a bunch of people quit who had struggled in HM (and then quit when BRF came out), and concluded the problem was HM didn't last long enough for those players to make satisfactory (to them) progress.

[Gorsameth]

I think they saw a bunch of people quit who had struggled in HM (and then quit when BRF came out), and concluded the problem was HM didn't last long enough for those players to make satisfactory (to them) progress.

Well it will have been pretty obvious that everyone simply stopped in whatever state of progress they were and went to BRF (expected) and then never came back (not expected).

[Osmeric]

Well it will have been pretty obvious that everyone simply stopped in whatever state of progress they were and went to BRF (expected) and then never came back (not expected).

Yes, but I suspect there were people who left HM, and then left the game. The idea being "if we didn't do what we expected in HM in the time given, BRF is going to be even worse". The game takes a huge risk when it tells people they aren't as good as they thought they were.

[Cracked]

I don't think BRF came out too quickly, god knows we were already bored of Hypemaul, but I do feel like it was INVALIDATED way too quickly, pretty much as soon as they added +5 ilvl on BRF items, Highmaul became completely irrelevant.

[Deja Thoris]

Yes, but I suspect there were people who left HM, and then left the game. The idea being "if we didn't do what we expected in HM in the time given, BRF is going to be even worse". The game takes a huge risk when it tells people they aren't as good as they thought they were.

This is always a problem in a new expansion. In MoP we had the cloaks and valor upgrades. In WoD we have the rings and broken trinkets. People get very used to killing stuff quickly which essentially lets you skip a lot of mechanics. Those that do happen can normally be somewhat ignored without it being catastrophic.

I remember very clearly at the start of WoD the only guild I could find streaming on the first night of HM was a 14/14HC guild from SoO that had been lulled into thinking they were awesome. They wiped and wiped for 3 hours on Butcher HC and got more pissy after each wipe refusing to even contemplate normal for gear. It was very entertaining.

[Count Zero]

I've been talking about the timing of their raid releases since MoP.

I think SoO is criminally under-rated as a raid due largely to how long it was out. It was out far, far too long, yes - but it was a damn good raid. They could have added a month or two each to the first two tiers and taken those out of SoO's length. And we all would have been a lot happier.

Similar situation for WoD. Except WoD needed a real minor content patch (big daily hub independent of a raid ... think MoP's first patch, or Isle of Thunder minus ToT, or Timeless Isle, or Argent Tourney, etc, etc) at *worst*. Ideally it could have used another small raid, as well. Or maybe a dungeon hub instead of a raid, but also a questing hub. Whatever.

I'm a huge Blizz fan - uninterrupted WoW sub for about a decade now, with no regrets - and saw the movie opening night ... but the combination of content pacing, and long content droughts has been pretty bad for a very long time now. But I would really say that - at least off the top of my head - those are the only two *major* complaints I really have with the game. Everything else I'd consider moderate, or minor, or something maybe I disagree with but understand.

Proof will be in the pudding with regard to whether they can live up to addressing these problems with Legion. I wouldn't say I'm excited about the prospect but I'm not counting them out. I think it's much more a necessity for Legion to be a success for them than it was for WoD, and I actually do fear that WoD may have suffered for the timing of the movie being delayed. But that's really not something we could ever know, and in any event I don't regret my time with WoD. I had good fun with good people, playing it.

[Dome Fossil]

I think HFC is the one that came out too quickly, only 4 months after BRF. The reason BRF came out so quick was because it's the same tier as Highmaul so there was just a short stagger time between them. It's just that the ilvls weren't well-balanced to compliment the the sort of weird half-tier that Highmaul was which tragically made it obsolete.

[Sithalos]

Normally I would agree that it came out too soon, but since Highmaul was such shit, I would say it came out at the right time.