Mass Shooting at Florida Gay Bar

[NYC17]

So you really trust the government that has known this guy is a radical for years and was contacted by a gun store weeks prior to the attack, a gun store that had informed the government that the shooter was looking to buy body armor and massive amounts of ammunition. I mean, the government is apparently completely incompetent, so why would you believe adding another law to the books will make it work better?

From what I understand, the gun store owner had no way of identifying who he was. They provided no real useful information as to his identity, so them "informing the government" isn't as damning to "the government" as you seem to think it is.

[Spectral]

That is because this guy was one of those very responsible gun owners, up until he walked into that club and pulled the trigger.

This is false - he was a wife beater that should have had his license revoked per Florida law. The laws that are already on the books were simply not enforced. One need not discuss all of his other questionable behavior - the wife beating is sufficient reason to have revoked his nominal right to have a gun.

[Wildtree]

This is false - he was a wife beater that should have had his license revoked per Florida law. The laws that are already on the books were simply not enforced. One need not discuss all of his other questionable behavior - the wife beating is sufficient reason to have revoked his nominal right to have a gun.

Speaking of gun legislation...
I have that strange concept of Federal Law trumping State law and Community law.
With that said, any state and community disregarding federal law should face ramifications accordingly.
There would be a lot less problems with all problem topics that plague the nation, if it wasn't for the lower levels ignoring and circumventing the federal laws.
Take whatever topic, and it always boils down to that situation.

[TZucchini]

This is false - he was a wife beater that should have had his license revoked per Florida law. The laws that are already on the books were simply not enforced. One need not discuss all of his other questionable behavior - the wife beating is sufficient reason to have revoked his nominal right to have a gun.

This is false - Florida law simply mirrors federal law. You must be convicted of domestic abuse, or have an active restraining order, to have firearm revoked. The current law was enforced. And it wasn't enough to stop this individual from purchasing a firearm.

[Ghostpanther]

Why do you think that's even a valid argument?

I know people try and bring this up with me all the time, and it makes no sense. In general, I'm in favor of some gun control; I think the USA has a dangerously pro-gun culture and the existence of the 2nd Amendment is problematic, in that it means everyone has a right to firearms, but that doesn't mean I'm in favor of gun seizures or something. Just responsible ownership, part of which is having a valid reason to have/carry the weapon. I just don't consider "fuck you, it's my right" to be a very convincing reason.

But events like this shooting don't change my views on gun control in the least. I think it's too easy for people like Mateen to get weapons like an AR-15, but I'm not going to blame responsible gun owners for Mateen's crimes, either. My above views mostly boil down to noting that the USA is somewhat unique in the developed world in its attitude towards gun control laws, and this correlates with its significantly higher gun violence rate, compared to those same other nations. Sure, it won't stop a dedicated criminal, but it makes use of such weapons in crimes of passion/opportunity much less likely, and puts hurdles in the way of people like Mateen who want to snap and buy some guns and go shoot up a club a week later.

In short, my "don't blame all gun owners" is pretty much the same as my "don't blame all Muslims" argument. And while my stance on gun control is pretty similar to how things work here in Canada, and I feel it works well, it's not the kind of thing that I think could be shoved into place tomorrow in the USA without consequence. I just think an open discussion about the purpose of gun control and whether the 2nd Amendment remains relevant in its current form, that's a conversation worth having. Even if the eventual answer is a reasoned "yes, let's keep things as they are". I just don't want the "answer" to be a reflexive "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" bit of nonsense.

We have gun control. What we lack is good and strong enforcement.

The only reason a person should need to carry a firearm besides their right to under the Constitution ( the bare part comes to mind ) is for self defense. And they should not have to provide a immediate threat to their lives in order to exercise that right.

[Spectral]

Speaking of gun legislation...
I have that strange concept of Federal Law trumping State law and Community law.
With that said, any state and community disregarding federal law should face ramifications accordingly.
There would be a lot less problems with all problem topics that plague the nation, if it wasn't for the lower levels ignoring and circumventing the federal laws.
Take whatever topic, and it always boils down to that situation.

Sure, agreed. In practice, good luck with this - there are nominal mechanisms for trying to wrangle compliance with the Constitution (and other federal laws), but even at the federal level, justices are remarkably good at coming up with tortured reasoning that just so happens to support what the current norms are.

[Ghostpanther]

This is false - Florida law simply mirrors federal law. You must be convicted of domestic abuse, or have an active restraining order, to have firearm revoked. The current law was enforced. And it wasn't enough to stop this individual from purchasing a firearm.

Accept he had no conviction of abuse or had any restraining order on him for it. So the law was not the fault, but the wife and his family ( who knew he was doing that shit no matter what his father said. ) for not reporting it and pursuing strongly enough. The families of these radical Islamic terrorists have got to start turning these scumbags in.

[Spectral]

This is false - Florida law simply mirrors federal law. You must be convicted of domestic abuse, or have an active restraining order, to have firearm revoked. The current law was enforced. And it wasn't enough to stop this individual from purchasing a firearm.

My mistake - I didn't realize he didn't have a prior conviction. Thanks for the correction. I think this reinforces the need to prosecute domestic violence.

[Nfinitii]

It's times like these that make me think of this video. https://youtu.be/MglTSDDexeA

Still seems pretty relevant too.

[TZucchini]

Accept he had no conviction of abuse or had any restraining order on him for it. So the law was not the fault, but the wife and his family ( who knew he was doing that shit no matter what his father said. ) for not reporting it and pursuing strongly enough. The families of these radical Islamic terrorists have got to start turning these scumbags in.

Shit man, blaming the abused wife? I have no idea what it's like to be the victim in an abusive relationship, and I'm certainly not going to blame or judge someone for leaving without pressing charges.

I'd rather see a much more comprehensive background check system. Perhaps making a few phone calls to family members, friends, co-workers, etc.. Maybe a psych evaluation included as part of the comprehensive check. Maybe some kind of flag that gets raised if the individual has been investigated by the FBI.

[TwistedSkull]

It's times like these that make me think of this video. https://youtu.be/MglTSDDexeA

Still seems pretty relevant too.

So he should bomb Florida?

[Melkandor]

Guys, the DOJ released the transcript and replaced each "Allah" with the word "god" instead.
This administration is really a sack of shit and needs to get the fuck out already.
If anybody defends this type of censorship, I'll say it right now, you are literally stupid as fuck.
We know it wasn't an ISIS organized attack, that doesn't mean it wasn't an attack based off of his religious ideologies.

[Vanyali]

Guys, the DOJ released the transcript and replaced each "Allah" with the word "god" instead.
This administration is really a sack of shit and needs to get the fuck out already.
If anybody defends this type of censorship, I'll say it right now, you are literally stupid as fuck.
We know it wasn't an ISIS organized attack, that doesn't mean it wasn't an attack based off of his religious ideologies.

Hey, guess what Allah means?

That's right, it means God (as in, the Christian God). So unless your complaint is they're translating to English, you've just got a stick up your ass about the word for some reason. Wonder what that could be.

[nextormento]

Here's the excerpt, for those interested.

[Natureseer]

Guys, the DOJ released the transcript and replaced each "Allah" with the word "god" instead.
This administration is really a sack of shit and needs to get the fuck out already.
If anybody defends this type of censorship, I'll say it right now, you are literally stupid as fuck.
We know it wasn't an ISIS organized attack, that doesn't mean it wasn't an attack based off of his religious ideologies.

you realize it was being translated to english, right?

[TITAN308]

How this thread is still open is beyond me.

[Noxx79]

Hey, guess what Allah means?

That's right, it means God (as in, the Christian God). So unless your complaint is they're translating to English, you've just got a stick up your ass about the word for some reason. Wonder what that could be.

He missed the memo as to what the right is supposed to be upset about. They redacted the word [ISIS] and a person who I don't know who I assume is an ISIS leader or radical Imam.
It specificially says that they just translated the Arabic to English (blah blah blah [in arabic]) Allah is Arabic. God is the translation.

[Vanyali]

He missed the memo as to what the right is supposed to be upset about. They redacted the word [ISIS] and a person who I don't know who I assume is an ISIS leader or radical Imam.
It specificially says that they just translated the Arabic to English (blah blah blah [in arabic]) Allah is Arabic. God is the translation.

It's okay though, he's righteously angry! RIGHTEOUS ANGER. THE GOVERNMENT! MUSLIMS!

- - - Updated - - -

How this thread is still open is beyond me.

It keeps the slop from slumping into other threads

[zenkai]

How this thread is still open is beyond me.

you mean because it's way off topic?

[lockedout]

Hey, guess what Allah means?

That's right, it means God (as in, the Christian God).

No it doesn't.