Baltics on war footing as NATO tries to deter Russia

[Dentelan]

It's funny how threads about the current situation between NATO and Russia, sparked by what happened/happens in Ukraine, always ends up with Russians going whatsboutism on Kosovo, Libya, Iraq, blacks and whatnot.

You ofcourse fail to realise that countries like France and Germany (who you seem to think are American vassals) did not want anything to do with Iraq.

I'm inclined to agree on Libya, yet it would be pretty cold as fuck by the international community, to watch the guy go all out on the civilians.

Somehow you are doin well with saudis doing same stuff, or you will again start "its different situation" stuff?

[Skroe]

It's funny how threads about the current situation between NATO and Russia, sparked by what happened/happens in Ukraine, always ends up with Russians going whatsboutism on Kosovo, Libya, Iraq, blacks and whatnot.

You ofcourse fail to realise that countries like France and Germany (who you seem to think are American vassals) did not want anything to do with Iraq.

I'm inclined to agree on Libya, yet it would be pretty cold as fuck by the international community, to watch the guy go all out on the civilians.

America's unique place in the world gives it a responsibility to protect, as in the case of Libya, though again, that was a mostly British/French show where the US reluctantly provided the muscle.

There is a very fine line we need to monitor though between fulfilling that responsibility to protect, as we did in Kosovo, and looking for dragons to slay. Military adventurism serves us poorly.

Some folks want a neat and tidy doctrine. But really, this is so complex and the implications so huge, the only way to go about it is a case by case basis.

But as you can see from the leak today that 51 people in the US State Department basically demanding US military action against Assad in Syria, the R2P runs very deep institutionally in the US. Regardless of the merits of their argument (which I dont have time to argue atm, gotta go do werk), it does yet again illustrate how isolated Obama, Susan Rice, John Kerry and Ben Rhodes have become from the US Foreign Policy establishment. They run a freakshow foreign policy so outside the norm, they have no allies within the State Department who are believers of it.

Oh well. 180 more days.

[Crispin]

no, they were slaughtering muslim terrorists and it all actually started by muslim terrorists slaughtering serbian women and children, trying to perform an ethnic cleansing. and nato helped them achieve that

Wait, the Serbs are extinct? I'll be honest, the Kosovo crisis is going abit offtopic, neither side in Kosovo were in the right and without an outside intervention it would have been a massacre, which is why I think NATO did the right thing.

[Skroe]

Somehow you are doin well with saudis doing same stuff, or you will again start "its different situation" stuff?

The Saudis have been valuable allies for many, many decades. Very valuable.

The day is quickly approaching though where their usefulness will be at an end.

It's as simple as that. They've served our interests for many years. They might not tomorrow. And they know that.

[Dentelan]

So you are pretty much saying, that you ruined Ukraine? How many people were killed in Crimea before Russia invaded?

Dont know statistics, maybe criminals killed someone just as in any place of this world, but theres's no war in Crimea, and no one getting killed massively because of something. Overthrowing of government supported by the west ruined Ukraine.

[Crispin]

Somehow you are doin well with saudis doing same stuff, or you will again start "its different situation" stuff?

Where did I write that I'm ok with the Saudis and what on earth do they have to do with this? again you're way out on whataboutism.

[Skroe]

Wait, the Serbs are extinct? I'll be honest, the Kosovo crisis is going abit offtopic, neither side in Kosovo were in the right and without an outside intervention it would have been a massacre, which is why I think NATO did the right thing.

It's just more Russian pan-Slavic nonsense.

Of course it completely ignores the fact that in the history of the human race, nobody has slaughtered Slavs in as great numbers or as frequently as other Slavs.

[Crispin]

Dont know statistics, maybe criminals killed someone just as in any place of this world, but theres's no war in Crimea, and no one getting killed massively because of something. Overthrowing of government supported by the west ruined Ukraine.

There were no war in Ukraine at all untill Russia invaded Crimea and pro-russian rebels started a civil war. It's pretty far out, to claim that there werent a war because you invaded before one started, did Russia implement some kind of "pre-crime" system?

[Dentelan]

Wait, the Serbs are extinct? I'll be honest, the Kosovo crisis is going abit offtopic, neither side in Kosovo were in the right and without an outside intervention it would have been a massacre, which is why I think NATO did the right thing.

Btw, we all remember what west were saying about war in Chechnya "Russians are killing children and womens,they are not terrorists, they are rebels" etc. Problem is, these rebels staged terrorist attacks and cutted of heads of prisoners. And west recognized it only after the Russian victory in this civil war. Maybe west would recognize that it all started with the terrorist Muslims in Yugoslavia, only this time the Serbs have lost, and the winner chose the truth.

[Skroe]

Btw, we all remember what west were saying about war in Chechnya "Russians are killing children and womens,they are not terrorists, they are rebels" etc. Problem is, these rebels staged terrorist attacks and cutted of heads of prisoners. And west recognized it only after the Russian victory in this civil war. Maybe west would recognize that it all started with the terrorist Muslims in Yugoslavia, only this time the Serbs have lost, and the winner chose the truth.

Half of Chechnya is that it represented more of an opportunity to carve Russia up like a roast.

Don't worry. We'll be coming back to that in coming decades.

[Crispin]

Btw, we all remember what west were saying about war in Chechnya "Russians are killing children and womens,they are not terrorists, they are rebels" etc. Problem is, these rebels staged terrorist attacks and cutted of heads of prisoners. And west recognized it only after the Russian victory in this civil war. Maybe west would recognize that it all started with the terrorist Muslims in Yugoslavia, only this time the Serbs have lost, and the winner chose the truth.

Whats next, Afghanistan? Vietnam? lol.

[Dentelan]

There were no war in Ukraine at all untill Russia invaded Crimea and pro-russian rebels started a civil war. It's pretty far out, to claim that there werent a war because you invaded before one started, did Russia implement some kind of "pre-crime" system?

I mean theres no body getting killed in Crimea except ordinary criminal may be, there is a peace. I see your point of view. Mine is:

The armed overthrow of the government. Parts of the country do not take no legitimate new government and its decisions. Begins collapse of the country. Donbass rebels. Crimea is separated and asks to join Russia.

[Skroe]

I mean theres no body getting killed in Crimea except ordinary criminal may be, there is a peace. I see your point of view. Mine is:

The armed overthrow of the government. Parts of the country do not take no legitimate new government and its decisions. Begins collapse of the country. Donbass rebels. Crimea is separated and asks to join Russia.

Thats not at all what happened, but okay.

[Dentelan]

Half of Chechnya is that it represented more of an opportunity to carve Russia up like a roast.

Don't worry. We'll be coming back to that in coming decades.

Wait to see you trying.

- - - Updated - - -

Thats not at all what happened, but okay.

These are the main points. You can say about green mens but such small thing doesnt matter really.

[burek]

Wait, the Serbs are extinct?

basically, yes. from 200 000 they were reduced to 20 000, all remaining in the north, where there was no muslims anyway

[Crispin]

basically, yes. from 200 000 they were reduced to 20 000, all remaining in the north, where there was no muslims anyway

Were 180k serbs killed or did they perhaps move to Serbia?

[Shalcker]

An American company was contracted to work on a school and it looked like troop barracks? My local school looks like a fucking bunker, but I can guarantee you it isnt.

Whatever it was they knew, it was enough to act despite possible backlash. And with Clinton email scandal and various other breaches (Western special services caught one of top Italian NATO officials supplying Russia with secret documents recently, and he isn't the only one) it's obvious that they knew a lot.

So when Russians arent getting their lease exteneded, they invade instead? And you still havent provided anything about US bases there, other than "school looks like barracks", wtf?

You seem to be confused. It doesn't need to be proven, "better safe then sorry" acts on assumptions, not rock-solid proofs. Ukrainians made overtures toward NATO before, and even supplied Georgians with BUKs and S-300 which cost us several planes in short Georgian War.

It's obvious that you're using the current NATO buildup and exersises, as some kind of "that's why we did it" excuse, completely ignoring that NATO in Europe did not look at Russia with the same eyes before you invaded Crimea,

You didn't. NATO obviously did. See our exchange about Baltics entering NATO above. Hell, just look at Western response to Georgian War in 2008 (even though in the end Russians were completely vindicated in starting it).

I have no doubt that the US would rather focus on Asia, instead of cold war V.2

Why exactly do you have no doubt?

[Crispin]

I mean theres no body getting killed in Crimea except ordinary criminal may be, there is a peace. I see your point of view. Mine is:

The armed overthrow of the government. Parts of the country do not take no legitimate new government and its decisions. Begins collapse of the country. Donbass rebels. Crimea is separated and asks to join Russia.

I realise that we see what happened in Crimea from completely different viewpoints, and I understand the reasoning behind yours altho I do not agree with Russias reaction at all.

And tbh, the situation is not solved by arguing Kosovo, Chechnya, Libya etc. We do realise when we fuck up, one example of this is the situation with ISIS, the West is pretty reluctant to go all in, because history tells us it'll go tits up one way or the other, and instead of beeing accused of doing to much, we're now accused of doing too little by pro-russians, we're damned if we do and damned if we dont.

[burek]

Were 180k serbs killed or did they perhaps move to Serbia?

as i said, there was no genocide, just ethnic cleansing, which doesn't necessarily involve killing everyone - killing and attacking just enough of them daily so the others have no choice but run for their lives, since there was no one to protect them considering that nato got involved on the side of the muslim terrorists

[Crispin]

Whatever it was they knew, it was enough to act despite possible backlash. And with Clinton email scandal and various other breaches (Western special services caught one of top Italian NATO officials supplying Russia with secret documents recently, and he isn't the only one) it's obvious that they knew a lot.

Jesus christ you're grasping for straws, keep at it, I miss the "our economy is fine" Shalcker, what happened, your economy got affected and you jumped the "OMG NATO WILL INVADE" crowd.

btw when did the baltics join NATO? and did NATO buildup an invasion army after that? oh wait they didnt.