Baltics on war footing as NATO tries to deter Russia

[Shalcker]

Jesus christ you're grasping for straws, keep at it, I miss the "our economy is fine" Shalcker, what happened, your economy got affected and you jumped the "OMG NATO WILL INVADE" crowd.

But our economy IS fine (though not likely to grow much in next few years).

This isn't thread about economy however.

btw when did the baltics join NATO? and did NATO buildup an invasion army after that? oh wait they didnt.

We aren't willing to find ourselves in position of "frog being boiled slowly". Just because it's not "full NATO might deployed right at our borders this very moment" doesn't mean we should not be concerned.

US left ABM treaty in 2002, and they only opened base in Romania now in 2016; it was and remains threat to Russia through this whole time, and we were protesting or trying to get involved to help achieve stated goals many times along the process.

[Deleted]

Let's get this over with and settle is once and for all. Russia has been bent from the Olympics, they're now completely backed to the wall, a showdown is inevitable at this point. Constantly beating around the bush solves nothing. It's time to launch an all out preemptive strike on them as well as on all other former soviet states, and on the middle east. If we don't do it now, it might be too late.

[Deleted]

NATO did not invade Iraq, that was a seperate coalition, Kosovo was in the middle of a genocide, if you think that you were protecting Russians in Crimea when you took it, then you should have no problem understanding why NATO got involved in Yugoslavia, it's not like NATO was sitting in Greece hoping for war to break out in Yugoslavia so they could start bombing someone.

Libya was a shitcase from the start, I've got no idea how it should have been handled nor do I think what was done was the correct thing, but that's obvious when you look at current Libya, but odd enough it did have a UN mandate, altho they went beyond the mandate.

I doubt any western media have come out and said that Russia taking Crimea was worse than Nazi Germany, if so they live in another reality (But I'm guessing you're just exaggerating here )

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Better invade Crimea than sorry? better support a civil war in Ukraine than sorry? Yeah doesnt really work that way mate, especially when you think that NATO will attack Russia.

Better safe than sorry. Their port is safe, better than being sorry their port was gone.

[Ulmita]

Let's get this over with and settle is once and for all. Russia has been bent from the Olympics, they're now completely backed to the wall, a showdown is inevitable at this point. Constantly beating around the bush solves nothing. It's time to launch an all out preemptive strike on them as well as on all other former soviet states, and on the middle east. If we don't do it now, it might be too late.

Eat a snikers and relax.

[Deleted]

Better safe than sorry. Their port is safe, better than being sorry their port was gone.

So Isreal was right to attack and invade their neighbors? The arabs might plane to attack.... its better being safe then sorry.... ?

[Shalcker]

So Isreal was right to attack and invade their neighbors? The arabs might plane to attack.... its better being safe then sorry.... ?

What this has to do with "right"? They can if they feel threat is big enough and they do. For example they had a few Hezbollah commanders killed with airstrikes on Syrian territory (within cities, no less!)

Do Americans have right to drone-bomb weddings? Do they do it anyway?

There are threat levels beyond which use of force is acceptable for everyone.

[Deleted]

What this has to do with "right"?

Was refering to the Six-Day War.

[Deleted]

So Isreal was right to attack and invade their neighbors? The arabs might plane to attack.... its better being safe then sorry.... ?

No it's not better to adopt a "safe than sorry" mentality. That was my point.

[Deleted]

No it's not better to adopt a "safe than sorry" mentality. That was my point.

Then I misinterpreted you.

[Caolela]

Jesus christ you're grasping for straws, keep at it, I miss the "our economy is fine" Shalcker, what happened, your economy got affected and you jumped the "OMG NATO WILL INVADE" crowd.

btw when did the baltics join NATO? and did NATO buildup an invasion army after that? oh wait they didnt.

Oh wait, some of them did - like Croatia and Albania in 2009, Slovenia and Slovakia in 2004. Notice how NATO has steadily been pushing up to Russia's western border, after promises not to do so in the 90's, then in 1999 several other countries that border Russia joined NATO (Czech Rep., Poland, Hungary) and more in 2004 (Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania).

Member states of NATO

[Azadina]

Oh wait, some of them did - like Croatia and Albania in 2009, Slovenia and Slovakia in 2004. Notice how NATO has steadily been pushing up to Russia's western border, after promises not to do so in the 90's, then in 1999 several other countries that border Russia joined NATO (Czech Rep., Poland, Hungary) and more in 2004 (Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania).

Member states of NATO

Maybe Russia should have thought of the possible consequences later on, when it invaded and forced those countries into it's "union".

Can't blame those countries not wanting the same thing repeated.

[Caolela]

Maybe Russia should have thought of the possible consequences later on, when it invaded and forced those countries into it's "union".

Can't blame those countries not wanting the same thing repeated.

That's the typical nonsense excuse and scare-mongering for NATO expansion, yet since the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact ended in 1991, Russia hasn't tried to force countries into any "union", except to protect its borders and interests from Western aggression in Crimea, Georgia, and Ukraine.

NATO is clearly the aggressor here, not Russia.

[Deleted]

after promises not to do so in the 90's,

Can you cite the promise and the source?

[Ulmita]

Maybe Russia should have thought of the possible consequences later on, when it invaded and forced those countries into it's "union".

Can't blame those countries not wanting the same thing repeated.

When did that happen?

[Skroe]

But our economy IS fine (though not likely to grow much in next few years).

This isn't thread about economy however.

We aren't willing to find ourselves in position of "frog being boiled slowly". Just because it's not "full NATO might deployed right at our borders this very moment" doesn't mean we should not be concerned.

US left ABM treaty in 2002, and they only opened base in Romania now in 2016; it was and remains threat to Russia through this whole time, and we were protesting or trying to get involved to help achieve stated goals many times along the process.

Russia doesn't act honestly and isnt' trust worthy. Bet it the INF Treaty, be it Georgia, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine, be it now NewSTART which Russia is evidently cheating on as well... hell be it the olympics.... Russia cheats. It lies. It steals.

The West will never trust Russia. We'd be fools to trust Russia. Not with your record of smiling deceit. We're keeping you in your box, and that is where you shalt live your lives. And you really can't stop the West from doing it.

Buzz all the goddamn destroyers you like. Poland gets the next base. July will see permanent Eastern European deployments. Where to after that? We throw an Aegis Ashore system in Turkey next the radar thats already there, as has been kicked around for years, that would be a Nasty little ring for Russian missile forces for Europe. Maybe it'll happen. Maybe it won't. Aegis Ashores are in high demand.

In any event, at least we actually withdrew from the ABM Treaty. Russia should do the first honest thing it'd done in years by withdrawing from INF and drop the charade already. Or hell we should do it since it's all but dead already. The US is already spending $1 trillion on new nuclear weapons through 2030. Might as well throw a new nuclear IRBM in there. Maybe we still have some in storage.

But really, it gets down to the fact that the notion of playing nice with you people is a dead notion, and it isn't coming back. You're something to be deterred. Not treated with respect and friendliness. And when Russia collapses in coming decades - and it will when Putin dies - we'll make sure to protect ourselves from the fallout of that.

[Konteil]

Well guys, time to start learning Russian! We'll have to please our Soviet overlords in no time!

as long as the russian brides are free at that point no one will care lol

[Ulmita]

Russia doesn't act honestly and isnt' trust worthy. Bet it the INF Treaty, be it Georgia, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine, be it now NewSTART which Russia is evidently cheating on as well... hell be it the olympics.... Russia cheats. It lies. It steals.

The West will never trust Russia. We'd be fools to trust Russia. Not with your record of smiling deceit. We're keeping you in your box, and that is where you shalt live your lives. And you really can't stop the West from doing it.

Buzz all the goddamn destroyers you like. Poland gets the next base. July will see permanent Eastern European deployments. Where to after that? We throw an Aegis Ashore system in Turkey next the radar thats already there, as has been kicked around for years, that would be a Nasty little ring for Russian missile forces for Europe. Maybe it'll happen. Maybe it won't. Aegis Ashores are in high demand.

In any event, at least we actually withdrew from the ABM Treaty. Russia should do the first honest thing it'd done in years by withdrawing from INF and drop the charade already. Or hell we should do it since it's all but dead already. The US is already spending $1 trillion on new nuclear weapons through 2030. Might as well throw a new nuclear IRBM in there. Maybe we still have some in storage.

But really, it gets down to the fact that the notion of playing nice with you people is a dead notion, and it isn't coming back. You're something to be deterred. Not treated with respect and friendliness. And when Russia collapses in coming decades - and it will when Putin dies - we'll make sure to protect ourselves from the fallout of that.

Two things i want to point out here.

a)Don't put "we" as the west. Several countries don't swallow USA bs, plus i am offended to be in the same category with you when it comes to external politics.
b)You talk as you could win a confrontation with Russia, which is funny. If you keep pushing you will get it up the behinds.

[Caolela]

Can you cite the promise and the source?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/breakin...russia/5453650

http://russia-insider.com/en/nato-le...own-words/5148

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...broken-promise


I'd suggest some of you quit buying into the West's propaganda, and do your own research.

[Azadina]

That's the typical nonsense excuse and scare-mongering for NATO expansion, yet since the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact ended in 1991, Russia hasn't tried to force countries into any "union", except to protect its borders and interests from Western aggression in Crimea, Georgia, and Ukraine.

NATO is clearly the aggressor here, not Russia.

Yeah, and after the "pact" ended, those countries wanted some insurance not to be conquered again.

[Deleted]

[B]

And when Russia collapses in coming decades - and it will when Putin dies - we'll make sure to protect ourselves from the fallout of that.

My prediction, then Putin die or get to old to rule effective, the throne pretender will fall over each other to make peace to "west" hence the successor can say look how good I am becuse I did save the economy (thanks to west remove the sanctions) It will be party bargaining about Ukraine, a fair elections in Crimea will be hold and the choose to continue to be part of Russia. Russia cut the suport to the warlords in eastern Ukraine, and resistance collapse particularly then Ukraine announces amnesty, and the warlords run out of Russian money.

Russia will be more western but is 20 years after east Europe.