So how are games with Widowmaker now?

[Sanct]

She's still very strong but that little change to her not being able to scope until the animation is done has made her far easier to flank and approach that's for sure. Also I only saw 1 mccree in like 15 games yesterday haha

Probably me. I play him when we don't have one, which has been more often since the patch.

[Deleted]

She's still mandatory for every team, any situation and her only counter is a better Widow player.

Lol no.

Genji, Tracer, Reaper, Mccree all trash widow rather easily once they find her.

Even a pharah can render her useless as long as the pharah stays on the ground.

[Jessicka]

Lol no.

Genji, Tracer, Reaper, Mccree all trash widow rather easily once they find her.

Even a pharah can render her useless as long as the pharah stays on the ground.

Actually, very often you can attack from the air over buildings either side of choke points where her attention is more likely to be focused. If you have her attention but didn't kill her, you can drop like a stone back in to cover and try a new angle.

[Mormolyce]

I'm not even good on widow and d.va is one of my favorite opponents. Her crit box is MASSIVE.

Please fire on my crit box while I'm charging at you with defensive matrix up.

D.Va is in a pretty poor state though and you're not going to counter anything with her.
There is not really much point in playing her at all and if you manage to own someone with her that player or his team is just bad and any hero would probably have done the trick.

Play as Widowmaker vs me on D.Va and discover how wrong you are

[Charge me Doctor]

Please fire on my crit box while I'm charging at you with defensive matrix up.

Please fire at my critbox while you eat 168 damage per second from my fusion cannons not counting booster ram damage, melee finish damage and "" spam for extra mental damage

[Aggrophobic]

Please fire on my crit box while I'm charging at you with defensive matrix up.



Play as Widowmaker vs me on D.Va and discover how wrong you are

Thats nice, you like D.Va. She's still trash tier and pointless in pretty much any situation once you play at higher levels.

There's a good reason why Blizzard is looking to buff her.

[Yoshimiko]

Please fire on my crit box while I'm charging at you with defensive matrix up.

Games are pretty dynamic. There's a reason this idea that Winston / D.Va counters Widowmaker is a bit silly. If you go jumping/flying through the air at Widowmaker - everyone is going to try to shoot you down. At lower MMRs, sure these work - because Widowmaker is not positioned behind her team / in good places, players are slower to react, etc.

Also, It only takes 1 shot to chunk out more than half of D.Va's health, and since her crit box is about half of her hit box - it's not even hard to land a headshot, even when you're trash at her like me.

Counters have a bit of variance depending of the team comp. Tracer may counter Widowmaker in some scenarios, but if she's out of reach or there's a Torbjorn guarding Widow...you're not going to kill her. Likewise, Widow may be able to handle D.Va in some scenarios and die horribly in others.

[Mormolyce]

Thats nice, you like D.Va. She's still trash tier and pointless in pretty much any situation once you play at higher levels.

There's a good reason why Blizzard is looking to buff her.

I'm more than happy for them to unnecessarily buff her.

You can't deny that she is a strong counter to Widowmaker though. Def matrix charge + knockback bump + melee and she's out of position and in serious trouble. Her only option is to run, and grapple has a huge cooldown while D.Va's boosters are practically nil. There is nothing Widowmaker can really do about a D.Va charge, if she's lucky she escapes.

Games are pretty dynamic. There's a reason this idea that Winston / D.Va counters Widowmaker is a bit silly. If you go jumping/flying through the air at Widowmaker - everyone is going to try to shoot you down. At lower MMRs, sure these work - because Widowmaker is not positioned behind her team / in good places, players are slower to react, etc.

Also, It only takes 1 shot to chunk out more than half of D.Va's health, and since her crit box is about half of her hit box - it's not even hard to land a headshot, even when you're trash at her like me.

Counters have a bit of variance depending of the team comp. Tracer may counter Widowmaker in some scenarios, but if she's out of reach or there's a Torbjorn guarding Widow...you're not going to kill her. Likewise, Widow may be able to handle D.Va in some scenarios and die horribly in others.

Yes, I agree that strict 1v1 situations and "counters" aren't how the game works in reality. I was just disputing this idea that there's no counter to Widowmaker other than another Widowmaker, which is nonsense. So I took a simplified example. Like you say, it's actually all situational.

D.Va does lose a lot of HP fast outside def matrix, but that's just her mech and she's just as useful as Hana. And also I would add that if the enemy team is free to shoot at D.Va while she charges Widowmaker then D.Va's team is doing something wrong. And sniper nests are often not that well defended.

[Aggrophobic]

I'm more than happy for them to unnecessarily buff her.

You can't deny that she is a strong counter to Widowmaker though. Def matrix charge + knockback bump + melee and she's out of position and in serious trouble. Her only option is to run, and grapple has a huge cooldown while D.Va's boosters are practically nil. There is nothing Widowmaker can really do about a D.Va charge, if she's lucky she escapes.

Best case, you'll put her out of combat for a few sec while you chase after her so your team gains nothing. Most of the time you're out of your mech befor you even get close to her.

It's pretty much impossible to not hit D.Va in the "head" and even an ok Widow will put 600-900 damage down range befor you get close to her.

At your level of play, I'm sure she's fine. She has no place in competative play however.
Widow on the other hand, does. She sure is a lot weaker now after the nerfs but she's still really strong.

The best way to handle a Widow is to have a better Widow on your team, just like it's always been.

[Deleted]

I just want to add they only nerfed her body damage, her headshot damage is identical so she can still oneshot Tracers and Zenyattas.

Old damage: 2x 15 = 30
New damage 2.5x 12 = 30

I'm fine with getting 1 shot by a headshot, what i wasnt fine with was getting one shot as soon as i could be seen because the widow didn't even have to aim properly within a massive triangle.

[Zelendria]

In an ideal world D.Va can boost up to the ledge WM is on uncontested and kill her without any real effort.
In the non ideal world she's out of range of your boost. She's already hit you once and put a trap down waiting for you so you're on your way in with half HP, and poison waiting for you. Roadhog has decided 'not today thanks' and hooks you while boosting.

It also means one of or possibly your teams only tank is out of the main fight chasing a sniper.

Think I've said it in this thread, but I 100% agree with Aggro. The best counter to WM is a better one.

Lol no.

Genji, Tracer, Reaper, Mccree all trash widow rather easily once they find her.

Even a pharah can render her useless as long as the pharah stays on the ground.

McCree is great at killing WM, but then you have to wonder just how much time he invests not being in the fight just to get near her. That's assuming she doesn't blow his head off long before he becomes a threat.
If WM is at proper range, depending on the map, McCree could take 30s to get anywhere near flash/FtH combo. Ideally she's right in his face.
Not ideal is by the time you got to her and kill her off she's killed everybody on your team. So you're the sole survivor off the point, and the enemy is down 1 man with 5 on the point/payload. WM has still won.

[SandMax]

Quick scoping was never a thing in Overwatch, there is long animation for scoping and it takes quite some time to get to max (and useful) dmg for scope. Even if you could return scoping in the middle of unscoping animation, you still had to wait for long scoping animation to finish until you can shoot, and also wait for charging.

Go play counter-strike and see what real quick scoping is.

[Yoshimiko]

Yes, I agree that strict 1v1 situations and "counters" aren't how the game works in reality. I was just disputing this idea that there's no counter to Widowmaker other than another Widowmaker, which is nonsense. So I took a simplified example. Like you say, it's actually all situational.

D.Va does lose a lot of HP fast outside def matrix, but that's just her mech and she's just as useful as Hana. And also I would add that if the enemy team is free to shoot at D.Va while she charges Widowmaker then D.Va's team is doing something wrong. And sniper nests are often not that well defended.

Hana is a weaker Mercy who can't heal nor buff nor has any mobility and does 6% less DPS and 20% less damage per shot with a worse reload time and less damage per clip. Hana is *not* as useful as D.Va. Hana definitely isn't as useless as most people think - just like Mercy with pistol isn't as bad as most people think, but she certainly isn't *good* and you don't pick D.Va for a DPS - you pick her as a tank. Without mech, you can't do the job you were picked for.

Tanks are in a weird place atm. You have Winston at a laughable 60 Dps - lowest in the game, Roadhog at 225 Dps - capable of 1shotting almost any hero except reinhardt and roadhog (only behind bastion and Reaper in damage), Zarya who's one of the lowest damage champions even with 100 charge - and is incredibly hard to keep charge up, and D.Va who does a fair bit of damage but loses all mobility and defenses while having the largest crit box in the game by a mile.

I feel like D.Va, Winston and Zarya's damage could all use some minor damage buffs, D.Va's crit box should be smaller(at least a little smaller) and Roadhog should be toned down a bit, at least so he can't 1shot 80% of the games roster.

[Deleted]

Quick scoping was never a thing in Overwatch, there is long animation for scoping and it takes quite some time to get to max (and useful) dmg for scope. Even if you could return scoping in the middle of unscoping animation, you still had to wait for long scoping animation to finish until you can shoot, and also wait for charging.

Go play counter-strike and see what real quick scoping is.

Well with widow you landed body shot and then quickly tap them again to finish them off. Before the nerf.

[SandMax]

Well with widow you landed body shot and then quickly tap them again to finish them off. Before the nerf.

0% charge did 15 dmg compared to 12. 15dmg is not even a dent on any character. And before nerf they still had to wait for scoping animation to finish.

[Eapoe]

It's become now where people who were great with Widow are still great, and people who were decent/good have moved on. I was never great with her, but I could still average 14+ kills for most matches and now I'm lucky to get 5-6 with a much higher death ratio from being flanked. It's not a huge loss, but when the other option is Hanzo who can just spray and pray and get head shots without really trying. Seriously, I laughed on the killcam when a Hanzo hit my feet on a jump and got a critical hit. I still enjoy Widow, but after the nerf, I don't really use her as much as there are now better options for my playstyle.

[Deleted]

Still too many. Her healthpoints need to be reduced to 150.

[Deleted]

Not seeing her too much now. But hanzos and Zenyettas have increased by like 1000%

[NFA]

The change was good, less widow spam and less likely to have a whole team shut down by her even when the player behind her isn't very good. She was just too easy to use before the nerf.

[Mormolyce]

Best case, you'll put her out of combat for a few sec while you chase after her so your team gains nothing. Most of the time you're out of your mech befor you even get close to her.

You've played against some terrible D.Vas I see.

If Widowmaker is LUCKY she survives, and breaking a sniper out of her nest is far from accomplishing nothing. That is actually an immense benefit to your team. And D.Va is SUPPOSED to be behind enemy lines chasing and being chased, that's what she DOES.

Widowmaker is extremely vulnerable to D.Va and the only thing that can really save her is the rest of her team.

Hana is a weaker Mercy who can't heal nor buff nor has any mobility and does 6% less DPS and 20% less damage per shot with a worse reload time and less damage per clip. Hana is *not* as useful as D.Va. Hana definitely isn't as useless as most people think - just like Mercy with pistol isn't as bad as most people think, but she certainly isn't *good* and you don't pick D.Va for a DPS - you pick her as a tank. Without mech, you can't do the job you were picked for.

Tanks are in a weird place atm. You have Winston at a laughable 60 Dps - lowest in the game, Roadhog at 225 Dps - capable of 1shotting almost any hero except reinhardt and roadhog (only behind bastion and Reaper in damage), Zarya who's one of the lowest damage champions even with 100 charge - and is incredibly hard to keep charge up, and D.Va who does a fair bit of damage but loses all mobility and defenses while having the largest crit box in the game by a mile.

I feel like D.Va, Winston and Zarya's damage could all use some minor damage buffs, D.Va's crit box should be smaller(at least a little smaller) and Roadhog should be toned down a bit, at least so he can't 1shot 80% of the games roster.

Winston's cannon requires no aiming so you can't dodge it though. Very strong versus some heroes, like Symmetra's main attack. I do agree he's a bit weak though.

I don't know why you'd say she's a weaker Mercy, if Mercy's using her shitty pistol she's not healing either. And you don't pick her as a tank - you pick her as a backline disruption hero. If you're only using her as a damage sponge then you're using her wrong. And Hana's pistol damage is nice but it's just a bonus, you mostly shoot things to recharge the mech. You can finish off low HP heroes or even fully kill them if they can't manage to hit her (she's pretty small), but usually you're just putting pressure out and causing further disruption.

D.Va annihilates Mercy, incidentally.