Well, it's happening, Trump is starting to lose bad in the polls..

[Ripster42]

Yes, and "how things already work in the USA" is a BAD THING. That system is what has gotten you patent trolls and the world's highest medical costs. We DO NOT WANT those.

You grant lots of patents, but how many of those are evergreening scams or other means of exploiting the system?



Define "then". If you mean the 50-70s when union membership was higher and employees had the clout to make demands, we've gone decidedly downhill from there. If you mean the gilded age, we're better than then, but descending to it rapidly.



Single payer isn't going to work without also getting healthcare costs under control. Just shifting existing costs from private to government without any cost reduction would add roughly a trillion dollars to the federal budget.

And we tried the "The Republicans couldn't possibly be stupid enough to do that. They'd have to compromise." thing before. This is what resulted.

You're essentially arguing a chicken/egg scenario twice. The US is the big backer for having our patent system distributed. This is because it's the system we use, not necessarily because of the specifics of our patent system. We'd be pushing for different patent laws in tpp if they were the ones in place here.

Healthcare costs aren't likely to get under control until the bargaining power of the consumer is as consolidated as the bargaining power of two different industries, pharma and for-profit medical practices; this likely requires a single payer system. And that single payer system will also have a vested interest and the power to enact patent reform.

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I'm talking about the working conditions in the countries we use for part of our manufacturing base. They increase drastically and the comparative labor advantage decreases rapidly, while leaving a much larger market in that country, which increases everyone's economic well being.

It's still not the democrats actively working at the state and local levels to demolish public unions and more generally restrict the power of unions. They're the party that has at least tried to recall the politicians responsible for it.

Edit: the government shut down was also politically damaging for republicans who then caved and compromised.

[Ghostpanther]

You wrote something but it was simply whah..I am not getting my way ...whah.

So in other words you do not have any thing constructive to add. People disagree with your views and it is ether a insult or a childish putdown.

[Pangean]

So in other words you do not have any thing constructive to add. People disagree with your views and it is ether a insult or a childish putdown.

Sure I did. You whine that the country is going down hill because you don't get your way. You may not like how I put it but it doesn't change that one bit.

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An interesting story where the NRA thinks Trump doesn't know what he is talking about.

NRA says Trump’s Orlando comments ‘defy common sense’

WASHINGTON — Two top National Rifle Association officials took aim at Donald Trump on Sunday, blasting his suggestion that armed clubgoers could have prevented the deadliest mass shooting in US history as one that “defies common sense.”

“No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms,” said Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action told ABC’s “This Week.” “That defies common sense. It also defies the law.”

Trump fired up a Texas rally on Friday by saying if some people at the Pulse nightclub “had guns strapped … right to their waist or right to their ankle” it would have “beautiful sight” to have them shoot “the son of a bitch.”

But Cox’s statement echoed President Obama, who said last Thursday during a visit to Orlando that the notion that similarly armed clubgoers would avert the tragedy “defies common sense.”

But Wayne LaPiere, NRA’s CEO, said Sunday that pistol-packing revelers are not a realistic solution.

“I don’t think you should have firearms where people are drinking,” LaPiere told CBS’s “Face the Nation.”
http://nypost.com/2016/06/19/nra-says-trumps-orlando-comments-defy-common-sense/

[Ripster42]

“I don’t think you should have firearms where people are drinking,” LaPiere told CBS’s “Face the Nation.”
http://nypost.com/2016/06/19/nra-say...-common-sense/

So what you're saying is that trump is going to receive a 105% rating from the NRA because he wants guns in even more places than they do?

[Bollocks]

Sure I did. You whine that the country is going down hill because you don't get your way. You may not like how I put it but it doesn't change that one bit.

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An interesting story where the NRA thinks Trump doesn't know what he is talking about.

NRA says Trump’s Orlando comments ‘defy common sense’

WASHINGTON — Two top National Rifle Association officials took aim at Donald Trump on Sunday, blasting his suggestion that armed clubgoers could have prevented the deadliest mass shooting in US history as one that “defies common sense.”

“No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms,” said Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action told ABC’s “This Week.” “That defies common sense. It also defies the law.”

Trump fired up a Texas rally on Friday by saying if some people at the Pulse nightclub “had guns strapped … right to their waist or right to their ankle” it would have “beautiful sight” to have them shoot “the son of a bitch.”

But Cox’s statement echoed President Obama, who said last Thursday during a visit to Orlando that the notion that similarly armed clubgoers would avert the tragedy “defies common sense.”

But Wayne LaPiere, NRA’s CEO, said Sunday that pistol-packing revelers are not a realistic solution.

“I don’t think you should have firearms where people are drinking,” LaPiere told CBS’s “Face the Nation.”
http://nypost.com/2016/06/19/nra-say...-common-sense/

The refreshing smell that comes when right wing media swings at Trump.

[Ghostpanther]

The refreshing smell that comes when right wing media swings at Trump.

I do not agree with Trump on this, but it may have a made a difference if they had more armed security guards on duty and even the bartenders having access to a firearm. Soft targets are picked on purpose for a logical reason by these scums.

[Pangean]

So what you're saying is that trump is going to receive a 105% rating from the NRA because he wants guns in even more places than they do?

Lol. More likely he is going to call them losers and say he knows more about guns than they do. And then he will produce his own range of guns except of course for stubby's and demand the NRA make all members buy them.

[Ripster42]

Lol. More likely he is going to call them losers and say he knows more about guns than they do. And then he will produce his own range of guns except of course for stubby's and demand the NRA make all members buy them.

It needs to be a uuuge gun. This has got to be his idea of a "hand cannon."

[Pangean]

I do not agree with Trump on this, but it may have a made a difference if they had more armed security guards on duty and even the bartenders having access to a firearm. Soft targets are picked on purpose for a logical reason by these scums.

But that's not what he said now is it? He spewed nonsense yet again. He says this shit because he doesn't know what he is talking about. Again.

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It needs to be a uuuge gun. This has got to be his idea of a "hand cannon."

Lol. That thing is not even three inches long. I can't imagine how long it would take to actually fire.

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The refreshing smell that comes when right wing media swings at Trump.

You know you tried too hard when the NRA says "yeah that's fucking stupid".

[Osmeric]

The Washington Post has an interesting story on the developing trainwreck of the Trump campaign.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-donald-trump/

[Pangean]

The Washington Post has an interesting story on the developing trainwreck of the Trump campaign.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-donald-trump/

Some real interesting information in that article. Thanks for posting it.

[Mormolyce]

I didn't say I wanted to pressure the left to evolve. They have an utopian goal I look forward to. I'm more curious on specifically how we are going to arrive there.

We're going nowhere as long as the right continues to try to appeal to the Trump/Palin wall-licker crowd.

How about a party that has an lessaiz faire economic policy with a social policy that's not trying to drag us back to the Dark Ages? I dare to dream the impossible dream...

[Wells]

The Washington Post has an interesting story on the developing trainwreck of the Trump campaign.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-donald-trump/

Man this brought a smile to my face.

[cubby]

Anyone reading that Trump is down in the polls and is shocked hasn't really been paying attention. And now the NRA is saying Trump is unbalanced . . . Lol.

[Bushtuckrman]

Oh my would you look at that Trump is bumping up again to the surprise of zero Trump supporters
http://gravismarketing.com/polling-a...ional-polling/

Make sure you donate more to Bernie guys he can do it!!

[Mormolyce]

The Washington Post has an interesting story on the developing trainwreck of the Trump campaign.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-donald-trump/

I mean, Trump made it his business to be a trainwreck.

Now the US is just starting to recover from the hangover and think to itself "oh yeah... that's a bad thing".

[Wells]

Oh my would you look at that Trump is bumping up again to the surprise of zero Trump supporters
http://gravismarketing.com/polling-a...ional-polling/

Make sure you donate more to Bernie guys he can do it!!

Why should the amount spent factor into how much I trust them, compared to, say, their Politifact record?

[Orbitus]

Oh my would you look at that Trump is bumping up again to the surprise of zero Trump supporters
http://gravismarketing.com/polling-a...ional-polling/

Make sure you donate more to Bernie guys he can do it!!

-bullshit already debunked image-

Sorry but your image is wrong and Gravis isn't a very good poll, they have been wrong on about all of their polls so far. Hell I linked one earlier in this thread that said that some guy was going to win by 27 points, and he ended up losing by like 50 something. Their polling is to people on LANDLINES, I don't know anyone but older people that think they need a land line.

Then we get to the image, he didn't "98% self fund". http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...ng-lie/482691/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/19/politi...ance-crowdpac/

The fact that you posted a meme, most likely from Trump's Reddit page, means nothing. But I want to know the real source so I can fucking laugh my ass off at it.

[Bollocks]

Oh my would you look at that Trump is bumping up again to the surprise of zero Trump supporters
http://gravismarketing.com/polling-a...ional-polling/

Make sure you donate more to Bernie guys he can do it!!

Since we are discussing economic issues let me repost this

Trump Economic plans.

Lets start with these gem:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-clovis-223086


His fiscal plan would require 10% growth for a decade. How is he going to achieve that is beyond me.
And no expanding our labor pool is not an option
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm

2. https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform


- The median US income is around $51,000, most Americans will have the bulk of their taxes levied at the tax rates of the bottom two (0% and 10%)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househ..._United_States

- This is a massive drop from where the US currently is and the growth rate would have to be enourmous

- This means that Trump suggests to levy tax rates way past the revenue optimal tax rate (Laffer Curve) and the US is already way past the point in which it can reduce taxes and still gain from it.
http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-econom...irlrss5UC27YXi

- The Tax Foundation finds that Trump's tax plan in specific would cost an estimated $9.5 trillion dollars over 10 years
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...rumps-tax-plan

I could go on, but I'm too lazy.

[Pangean]

Oh my would you look at that Trump is bumping up again to the surprise of zero Trump supporters
http://gravismarketing.com/polling-a...ional-polling/

Oh lookie. It's a Trump supporter latching on to the Gravis poll. Hmm whats wrong with the Gravis Poll. Hmmm Could it be: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...he-lost-by-67/

Or the fact they only use automated phone calls. Which means they don't call cell phones as it's illegal to do so with automated systems. Which means the polls aren't actually accurate given the number of folks who don't have landlines. You keep grasping on that poll though. It's far better than what you did in your twenties.

Oh and what are the polls actually showing: