What is Rape Culture?

[dragonvalor]

That's not what's meant by rape culture though. I'm not talking about a jury not being convinced. Friends, families, communities, law enforcement, and other institutions are so likely to disbelieve the victim from the start that victims often do not come forward, which in turn makes rape more likely to happen.

It's a little more complicated than that

[Beazy]

If you go back through the thread, I've posted maybe a dozen sourced examples. Not a student if that matters. My point is that rape cases are often minimized or treated as non-crimes even in the face of strong evidence, a fact which I think should be undeniable at this point to any unbiased observer. When I post individual cases, I'm told that these don't count because they're just "examples." When I post stories that involve society's reaction to high profile cases, I'm told that these don't count because they are "celebrities." When I post interviews from police officer's about a department's tendency to disbelieve victims, this evidence is dismissed too. Pretty much all forms of evidence I could offer have been rationalized away in one form or another. Meanwhile, probably half a dozen posts on this thread have made wild claims about feminists conspiracies with no sources to back them up whatsoever.

No, you have posted zero studies. Website blogs riddled with links you've never read are not "evidence".

[dragonvalor]

Im slightly concerned about the people you hang out with if you're encountered people downplaying rape regular

[Huulo]

So you are back to using a handful of examples as proof of a wider event. That snowball still does not show climate change is not real, no matter how many times you present it.


p.s. Thanks for the analogy, I love it.

Ok so you rapidly shifted gears from talking about burden of guilt in individual cases, which I covered, and rather then concede that you lost the argument changed it back to the climate change analogy again, which would not apply to this case and still makes no sense the way you use it.

[Huulo]

I've framed this argument:

There is no rape culture. 99.8%+ of Americans are not rapists, nor will they ever be involved with rape in any form, shape or size, as the 0.2% number I gifted to you includes sexual assaults of any sort.

All you've done is show how vastly skewed public perception is of rape. You act as if it's happening everywhere, all the time and that everyone's getting away with it. I'll use your own figure against you: Only 2% of rapists get away with it. 2% of 0.2% of the population get away with rape.

The only reason rape culture comes up as a subject is because the modern, regressive feminists push it hard as an agenda. They have no basis in reality for it.



Idiots.

I just have to ask, how is this random 2% number "my" figure? Where did it even come from?

By the way, the studies are the basis for reality. You might not want to count all sexual assaults, but I would rather count them then pretend that they didn't happen.

[Deleted]

THIS. This is rape culture right here. You know, that thing that doesn't exist. 88% or rape accusations are false based on ridiculously tortured logic and a misunderstanding of what "innocent until proven guilty" means. The fact that there wasn't enough evidence for a conviction or that a victim was pressured to recant does not mean that no rape occurred. Even if I accept your "5%" figure, it does not mean that no rape occurred in all of those cases, because as you said in some of them the victim recanted. Keep in mean, victims face enormous pressure to not come forward, considering that the process will be hell for them.

No, he was talking about the number of women who thinks A, is rape, when in fact, it is not actually rape.
Its disheartening looking at statistics here, because an inordinate number of women thinks A is rape, when in fact, it is not.

[Kalis]

Ok so you rapidly shifted gears from talking about burden of guilt in individual cases, which I covered, and rather then concede that you lost the argument changed it back to the climate change analogy again, which would not apply to this case and still makes no sense the way you use it.

I have not put forward an argument, I have asked you to prove yours, YOU made the claim so YOU prove it.

And your climate change analogy ruined your own argument, stop trying to claim otherwise. You tried to use limited examples as proof of a wider event and I said that was rubbish, just as a snowball (example) does not disprove climate change (wider event).

[dragonvalor]

I just have to ask, how is this random 2% number "my" figure? Where did it even come from?

By the way, the studies are the basis for reality. You might not want to count all sexual assaults, but I would rather count them then pretend that they didn't happen.

What's the % of rape in the USA?

[Yarathir]

I'm just curious, how much evidence do I need to provide?

Well, evidence that inhabitants of western societies by and large believe that rape victims are responsible for their own misfortune and the crimes of others, not just a few fringe cases from years past and direct family members of the rapist who are really just out to defend "their own" in spite of anything.

It's supposed to be a culture, if you can't actually demonstrate that it is a widely believed notion or something ingrained into a vast majority of the minds of those molded by said culture, it's not a rape culture, it's just a few cases of family covering each other's backs and a few people being unwilling to accept that their favorite celebrities are actually huge monsters.

[provaporous]

After Brock Turner was convicted of rape, his father, his friends, and the judge went to great lengths to rationalize it as "promiscuity." Unfortunately, this is still common and is bad for both women and men.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/brock-...anford-rapist/

that is not culture though - There are no written codes or social norms that forgive or lessen the punishment for rape. What that judge did was perverse to the intent of mitigating circumstances and he will loose his bench for it. I challenge you to find any real unbiased study that shows that even a single percent of Americans find rape excusable. Meanwhile in the Middle east rape culture exists, they import African girls to take care of household chores (never mind that they are almost all raped once they get there by the men of the house) And women are stoned to death for being raped.

Third wave Feminists have run out of legitimate local things to champion and therefore their well of public concern for real issues has run dry, no more donations from rational people. So they have to invent bogus shit like 1 in 5 women on campuses are raped or 1 in 3 women are victims of rape in their lifetime. They redefine definitions like sexual violence to further skew these statistics in order to incise outrage and donations. Real feminists are the ones trying to tackle the abuses in the lesser developed world.

[Beazy]

People doubt jury verdicts all the time. For many of the reasons I stated above, and for other reasons. It's not some unique special kind of oppression aimed at rape victims.

I doubt the OJ verdict of Not Guilty.


OMFG WIFE-MURDER CULTURE CONFIRMED
#SCIENCE #EVIDENCE

[Deleted]

I just have to ask, how is this random 2% number "my" figure? Where did it even come from?

By the way, the studies are the basis for reality. You might not want to count all sexual assaults, but I would rather count them then pretend that they didn't happen.

The question is not whether or not they happened, its whether or not they were crimes.

[Deleted]

I'll be honest Huulo, I don't think it's worth discussing this topic with you, because you're a fanatic and fanatics don't listen to facts or arguments

You've done what religious people do:

- you started with the assumption rape culture exists
- then every instance that can be used to illustrate your belief is absolute telling truth - even if there's very few
- and every instance that refutes your belief you subject to unequal standards of proof and elaborate debunking - even if they're overwhelmingly many

This is sort of like Anselm's "argument from being" or ontological proof of God; the existence of rape culture (especially one that is so insidious that it escapes detection!) doesn't automatically follow from defining what rape culture is

This is also how religious people argue about religion, and why atheists just can't get through to them

[Yarathir]

Lol people thinking rape culture is some made up thing.

You precious people.

right? smh they don't just accept my preconceived notions on the basis of the very assertion that was made by the mention of the name.

i mean, helloooo! it's 2016, people!

if you don't believe gender studies tripe off-hand, it's obviously you who are the problem!!

[Huulo]

No, you have posted zero studies. Website blogs riddled with links you've never read are not "evidence".

You're right, I should have done more research. I may have been wrong, maybe Brock Turner, Bill Cosby, and Woody Allen don't exist. Maybe none of the rape cases I looked at happened. Maybe rape really isn't happening in the military and on campuses. Maybe all those congressional hearings were shows put on by paid actors. And the CDC study was clearly not a study.

/s

In the sea of posts against me, literally one person posted a source to back up their claims and it was a self-contradicting blog.

[Beazy]

You're right, I should have done more research. I may have been wrong, maybe Brock Turner, Bill Cosby, and Woody Allen don't exist. Maybe none of the rape cases I looked at happened. Maybe rape really isn't happening in the military and on campuses. Maybe all those congressional hearings were shows put on by paid actors. And the CDC study was clearly not a study.

/s

In the sea of posts against me, literally one person posted a source to back up their claims and it was a self-contradicting blog.

....because you cant debunk fantasy. I dont have any peer reviewed scientific journals proving unicorns dont exist. Sorry.

You desperately need to take a Stats 101 class. Please enroll next semester and save yourself some embarassment in life.

[dragonvalor]

You never answered my question

[Huulo]

I'll be honest Huulo, I don't think it's worth discussing this topic with you, because you're a fanatic and fanatics don't listen to facts or arguments

You've done what religious people do:

- you started with the assumption rape culture exists
- then every instance that can be used to illustrate your belief is absolute telling truth - even if there's very few
- and every instance that refutes your belief you subject to unequal standards of proof and elaborate debunking - even if they're overwhelmingly many

This is sort of like Anselm's "argument from being" or ontological proof of God; the existence of rape culture (especially one that is so insidious that it escapes detection!) doesn't automatically follow from defining what rape culture is

What evidence has there been here that refutes the idea of rape culture? And where have any of my ideas been proven wrong? The only one that has really been challenged were the CDC statistics, which I still stand by because I think that data about sexual assaults can be informative even when they aren't classified as rape.

Honestly, the refusal of people to face reality, to so easily dismiss all the examples presented here, kind of proves my point.

[thehollowman]

THIS. This is rape culture right here. You know, that thing that doesn't exist. 88% or rape accusations are false based on ridiculously tortured logic and a misunderstanding of what "innocent until proven guilty" means.

So you disagree with hard statistics, and instead of engaging in any form of debate, you immediately start yelling "rape culture" at me. Lovely.

88% of rape accusations being false isn't twisting logic. What other word would you like me to use?.

The fact that there wasn't enough evidence for a conviction or that a victim was pressured to recant does not mean that no rape occurred. Even if I accept your "5%" figure, it does not mean that no rape occurred in all of those cases, because as you said in some of them the victim recanted.

Actually, according to our justice system, that's exactly what it means. If you cannot render a "guilty" verdict, you must render a "not-guilty" verdict (barring hung juries). Not guilty means you didn't do it. 88% of rape allegations result in either not guilty or no trial, both cases imply that the accused was not-guilty. Guess what that means? No rape happened!!

I'll be the first to admit that sometimes our courts mess up and acquit in the face of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, or convict in the face of low evidence. Most studies suggest that these to phenomena roughly cancel each other out. But to say that a huge, unprecedented, and historic percent of rape cases receive false acquittals is just sensationalism.

Rape either happened or it didn't, and real statistics, not sensational journalism, suggest that it almost perfectly follows guilty/not-guilty verdicts. There's is this concept of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If the prosecution fails to meet that threshold, then, in good conscience, you cannot convict.

At that point the courts will have decided that either a rape did or didn't happen.

The accused will decide whether the rape did or didn't happen.

The accuser will decide if the rape was real.

Of those three opinions, only one gets to decide what really happened. The courts. So, I still stand by the fact that 88% of rape allegations are false. Barring a few outliers of false acquittals.


I do genuinely feel terrible when the accuser felt that the rape really happened. I hope she gets whatever help she needs and moves on. I think there should be some form of help from the government, because it is hard to go through that process and be told that what you feel is wrong. But it happens. You're not always right, and I get that's hard, especially in something so special like your body and sexuality. But you can't turn around and scream at the courts and the accused, when the law determined you were not raped.

Keep in mean, victims face enormous pressure to not come forward, considering that the process will be hell for them.

Is there a statistical source for this? I could never find one, it just seems to be how some really vocal people "feel"? I mean not wanting to accuse someone of rape because you have to tell your side of the story and be scrutinized isn't a real reason. If you want to accuse someone, you have to come up with the proof, the defendant doesn't have to disprove your claim (thankfully).

This is the basis of almost all successful legal systems in the world. We cannot change is just because some people don't want to come up with the burden of proof simply because it makes them feel uncomfortable.

[Jingoism]

Saddest thing about this is that it's so freakin' true. Not to mention that if someone gets sentenced its like one year or even community service at times.. Plus they still get to stay inside the country despite many cases of continued attacks on women. It's honestly sickening.

Agreed, I've read too many stories to this effect. It truly is sickening, but worse yet still are the people who deny such things even happen. Something is gonna have to give and when that happens it'll be extremely ugly.