wealth inequality

[Theinquisition]

I don't imagine that a great many of the working poor ( truly poor) spend a lot of time on mmoc.

Not me anyway. last tax return had me at just a little above the national median income, which is DMN good for w tn.

I don't know dude, there are plenty of unemployed or under employed folks here on MMOC who are constantly whining about how other people make more than them and how its just not fair.

I'm solidly in the middle class and happy with it.

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Well said. The book What to Expect When No One's Expecting by Johnathan Last is fairly clear on this. I don't 100% agree with him ( he's a bit of a religious nut) but it's mostly a good read.

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Minimum wage, a protective tariff, prison terms for employers who hire illegal workers, etc.

Basically throw up a barrier every time their desire to cheap out on wages finds a new way to do so.

Tariffs tend to be very counter productive.

[Tijuana]

Well said. The book What to Expect When No One's Expecting by Johnathan Last is fairly clear on this. I don't 100% agree with him ( he's a bit of a religious nut) but it's mostly a good read.

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Minimum wage, a protective tariff, prison terms for employers who hire illegal workers, etc.

Basically throw up a barrier every time their desire to cheap out on wages finds a new way to do so.

Those solutions only affect the lowest paid workers. The problem is much bigger than that. Basically, you guys are arguing that the economic policies that lead to the speed bump becoming a mountain are irrelevant because we can just raise minimum wage. LOL, why am I still in this thread. It's like a train wreck I can't look away from.

[Glorious Leader]

I don't see what Marx has to do with a discussion among grown ups about economics. /shrug

Yea I'm taging out. Somebody else can debate this ignorance. Steam summer sale > educating the ignorant.

[Berengil]

I don't know dude, there are plenty of unemployed or under employed folks here on MMOC who are constantly whining about how other people make more than them and how its just not fair.

I'm solidly in the middle class and happy with it.

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Tariffs tend to be very counter productive.

Well, when it comes to economics, I'm a bit of a Hamiltonian nationalist. Keep jobs and capital at home, I say.

[Deleted]

indeed, so why did you say we need to curb our population?

If we're referring to the global population then the answer would be too many people and not enough resources.

[Tijuana]

Yea I'm taging out. Somebody else can debate this ignorance. Steam summer sale > educating the ignorant.

Yeah, Marx guy is the smart one in the room. /pat

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If we're referring to the global population then the answer would be too many people and not enough resources.

What makes you say that? We have more than enough food for everyone, if we were not dicks about how we distribute it.

[Theodarzna]

Well, we only have our own gov't to blame for that. If they aren't enforcing the laws already on the book, which is what they seem to do with immigration policy overall. Just another reason why I don't trust our gov't with much of anything

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indeed, so why did you say we need to curb our population?

We are trapped between two crisis. The crisis' that could be caused by "overpopulation," but more aptly, "poor resource management and distribution," and the crisis' of aging demographics and demographic decline. The point I was making is actually we are trapped between a rock and a hard place in this situation.

Further more, it gets more complex. The elite, or powerful and wealthy ownership class is faced with the dual problem of "If they don't breed, nobody buys anything." and the fact that on an individual level it takes immense time investment and sacrifice during your young and fertile years to get ahead. ON THE OTHER HAND, if we were to just breed at rapid rates then there would be the problems of resource depletion and the fact that we do not distribute our resources in any effective or wise way.

So we are stuck. To sustain our lifestyle we need to both curb the population globally BUT at the same time to sustain our current lifestyle we need to breed much more than we do.

The crisis' are basically the ultimate No-Win scenario for us at our present trajectory.

[Gestopft]

YES! You are saying EXACTLY what I have been saying all along: cheapskate employers are a constant throughout history and therefore not the variable that caused us to deter from the norm.

The variable is how we as a society address the employer's desire to purchase labor at the lowest price they can. The minimum wage has not gone up for years, which keeps down the base bargaining level for people above that level. Union participation has fallen by 2/3, etc. So yes cheapskate employers are a constant, but how problematic they are depends on how much leeway we give them.

[Cthulhu 2020]

GDP. The figure is GDP. Obama has over seen the worst economic growth of any president in history, including the ones who only served 4 years. Is that 100% his fault, no not really. But the fact remains, we are currently in the worst growth period since the great depression, and that is the root of our problems in regards to jobs and wages.

Considering all the graphs shown thus far, GDP growth means almost nothing to 80% of the population since they don't get to share in its growth. That was my point about Sam Walton's net worth means about as much to a poor person as the shit stain on my toilet paper means to you. The great majority of our GDP growth goes to guess who.

Proportional sharing of growth among all the quintiles ended in the late 70's, with Reganomics. Every year I learn to give less and less shit about wall street and our GDP, since it means almost nothing for the welfare of the people of this country.

[Tijuana]

We are trapped between two crisis. The crisis' that could be caused by "overpopulation," but more aptly, "poor resource management and distribution," and the crisis' of aging demographics and demographic decline. The point I was making is actually we are trapped between a rock and a hard place in this situation.

Further more, it gets more complex. The elite, or powerful and wealthy ownership class is faced with the dual problem of "If they don't breed, nobody buys anything." and the fact that on an individual level it takes immense time investment and sacrifice during your young and fertile years to get ahead. ON THE OTHER HAND, if we were to just breed at rapid rates then there would be the problems of resource depletion and the fact that we do not distribute our resources in any effective or wise way.

So we are stuck. To sustain our lifestyle we need to both curb the population globally BUT at the same time to sustain our current lifestyle we need to breed much more than we do.

The crisis' are basically the ultimate No-Win scenario for us at our present trajectory.

I think you are giving the public way too much credit for their role in global population. I think a more apt way to put it would be, we just like fuck a lot, and then babies happen.

[Cthulhu 2020]

This whole post is just all emotion, man. It's all feelings and presumed feelings. WTF. None of what you are claiming is true. Seriously you are literally so partisan that you think everyone is the same way. We are not. We judge issues one by one and choose a solution. Your kind is the minority. Maybe not here at MMO-C, but in the real world, hyper partisans are not the norm.

"You're so partisan, blah blah blah." This post was a waste of time to even read. The right has not put forward any actual intent of doing anything about businesses who hire illegals, it's all about how to stop and/or punish the illegals themselves. People would rather beat them with the stick than take away the carrot at the end of that stick.

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Well, we only have our own gov't to blame for that. If they aren't enforcing the laws already on the book, which is what they seem to do with immigration policy overall. Just another reason why I don't trust our gov't with much of anything

Why don't conservatives... I dunno, start talking about punishing businesses who hire illegals? Funny how it's always about blaming the incompetency of government, and yet they want to use it to stop illegals, just not businesses.

[Tijuana]

Considering all the graphs shown thus far, GDP growth means almost nothing to 80% of the population since they don't get to share in its growth. That was my point about Sam Walton's net worth means about as much to a poor person as the shit stain on my toilet paper means to you. The great majority of our GDP growth goes to guess who.

Proportional sharing of growth among all the quintiles ended in the late 70's, with Reganomics. Every year I learn to give less and less shit about wall street and our GDP, since it means almost nothing for the welfare of the people of this country.

Everyone shares in GDP growth. Dude, are you for real right now? Do you not understand that GDP growth is where new jobs and expansion come from? Ok so, if you just blindly accept the Obama economy as the what we should strive for, how do you intend to create jobs without creating a growth in the amount of business taking place, aka GDP growth.

[Deleted]

What makes you say that? We have more than enough food for everyone, if we were not dicks about how we distribute it.

It depends on the environment. Some people still hunt rats for food because they redistributed the wealth of all their farmers in arid wastelands.

Sometimes there's only so much you can do with any given environment. Too many people compounds the problem.

Not that I am against the moonshot mentality or anything. I have often debated people who want to control everyone and use resource management as an excuse.

[Tijuana]

"You're so partisan, blah blah blah." This post was a waste of time to even read. The right has not put forward any actual intent of doing anything about businesses who hire illegals, it's all about how to stop and/or punish the illegals themselves. People would rather beat them with the stick than take away the carrot at the end of that stick.

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Why don't conservatives... I dunno, start talking about punishing businesses who hire illegals? Funny how it's always about blaming the incompetency of government, and yet they want to use it to stop illegals, just not businesses.

Because talking about things is not how the real world works. There are laws, and they are enforced shitty, but no worse in red states than in blue. You claim this is a conservative thing but that would assume all businesses are owned by conservatives. How many conservatives are there in Chicago? How many illegal workers are there in Chicago. Like, dude...you are failing so hard right now, even for you...I don't even know what to say man.

[Captain N]

"You're so partisan, blah blah blah." This post was a waste of time to even read. The right has not put forward any actual intent of doing anything about businesses who hire illegals, it's all about how to stop and/or punish the illegals themselves. People would rather beat them with the stick than take away the carrot at the end of that stick.

It's always easier to blame the person than it is to blame the Company that engages in such behavior. But with the amount of Corporate Apologists in this country it's no wonder.

[Gestopft]

Those solutions only affect the lowest paid workers.

A minimum wage increase would affect more than just the lowest paid workers. Millions of workers above that level would gain an increase in effective bargaining power which would help them leverage better wages.

Since half of Americans make less than $30,000 per year, the word "only" is hardly applicable.

[Theodarzna]

I think you are giving the public way too much credit for their role in global population. I think a more apt way to put it would be, we just like fuck a lot, and then babies happen.

Consciously no, but the general public IS everything on that front since we are the ones that make or break this situation.

We aren't having more sex now than ever before, we simply just don't die like we used to.

Hence the noted Japanese economist who reminded elderly folk to "hurry up and die." Japan is deeper into the problem then the US or Europe, but they are attempting to solve it in different ways. Mainly they are forgoing the quick patch solution of immigrants, and just hoping to bare it out until things correct themselves.

[Tijuana]

"You're so partisan, blah blah blah." This post was a waste of time to even read. The right has not put forward any actual intent of doing anything about businesses who hire illegals, it's all about how to stop and/or punish the illegals themselves. People would rather beat them with the stick than take away the carrot at the end of that stick.

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Why don't conservatives... I dunno, start talking about punishing businesses who hire illegals? Funny how it's always about blaming the incompetency of government, and yet they want to use it to stop illegals, just not businesses.

Do you remember that town in Pennsylvania that enacted a self deport program? They passed strict laws against hiring or leasing to illegal aliens. They made it basically in the best interests of the illegals to go elsewhere. Wanna guess which party passed that law? Wanna guess which side of the aisle FREAKED THE FUCK OUT?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Because talking about things is not how the real world works. There are laws, and they are enforced shitty, but no worse in red states than in blue. You claim this is a conservative thing but that would assume all businesses are owned by conservatives. How many conservatives are there in Chicago? How many illegal workers are there in Chicago. Like, dude...you are failing so hard right now, even for you...I don't even know what to say man.

So why do you constantly talk about punishing illegals, if talking isn't how it works? Why do they fill up the air waves with talk about illegals? You keep deflecting and straw manning, but I'm not seeing any answers to my question.

If you have ants in your kitchen all going ham on a spill of honey, do you just stomp on the ants constantly, or do you clean up the honey?

That answer being obvious, tell me again, why do conservatives CONSTANTLY speak of punishing illegals, but not businesses?

[Tijuana]

A minimum wage increase would affect more than just the lowest paid workers. Millions of workers above that level would gain an increase in effective bargaining power which would help them leverage better wages.

Since half of Americans make less than $30,000 per year, the word "only" is hardly applicable.

Or we could just grow the economy and live in paradise like 1950s white america. The best times in history are periods of high growth. I'll never understand why the left would sacrifice the benefit of all, just to keep the wealthy from benefiting also. Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face...