Munkkys Vengeance Demon Hunter Guide UPDATED 7.3

[XzistencE]

Not complaining about windwalker buffs at all, it is very much needed as the class has some of the poorest single target dps. And yeah, my post was quite reactionary. I saw vengeance get a nerf with laughable compensation and one of the strongest tank specs getting a buff. I didn't look into how or if those buffs actually mattered though, and that is kinda important.

Even though I'm late to the party, I still don't understand how Bliizard can justify nerfs to one of the weaker tank specs without adequate compensation that actually addresses aspects that make them a weaker spec. If they don't know how to solve that yet then they should hold off on tuning our dps.

I would wager it is in preparation for their M+ events. Our spec does some pretty hefty damage to M+ mobs which can sometimes eclipse DPS spec mob damage. Unfortunately... it further puts us behind in the raid world as the DS increase of 2% seems pretty meh

[Raiz]

I did not found any information - maybe i just slip over - regarding of spirit bomb. Why ppls using it? What's the benefit? How it is good in raid situation?

I'd like to join him. I just tried to get my dh back and I'm still confused about how I should use this talent. I read somewhere that you absolutely need like 5 souls before using it otherwise it was a huge dps / heal loss (?). I don't know if it's still the case, but whenever I try to get 5 souls sometimes I'd automatically pick up a soul and then it's 4 souls and I ended up using Spirit bomb. Is is bad ? How do you prevent it ? How often are you using it compared to say Soul Cleave ?
I'm asking all of that because I feel like I did pretty poor damage in a mythic dungeon (did like 400k in DHT overall with 890 ilvl. Pretty underwhelming, isn't it ?).

[Deleted]

You will try to maximise your results from the global cooldowns you have - so 5 souls without overcapping would be perfect, if you're at 4 souls and don't have meta up (no guaranteed 5th soul) you just use Spirit Bomb and start with stacking souls again.
There are of course scenarios where you can't prevent overcapping or consuming souls. I wouldn't say it's "bad" in these cases but of couse not the best outcome DPS wise.

For Soul Cleave: I personally only use it if I am in need of the heal, that is emergency cases. In my last full ToS HC run I used SC twice - once on Fallen Avatar, once on Kil'jaeden.
This however depends on your group composition as well - we generally have two RDruids out of 4 healers overall (for ~16-18 players), so I can rely on hots to top me off.

[Raiz]

You will try to maximise your results from the global cooldowns you have - so 5 souls without overcapping would be perfect, if you're at 4 souls and don't have meta up (no guaranteed 5th soul) you just use Spirit Bomb and start with stacking souls again.
There are of course scenarios where you can't prevent overcapping or consuming souls. I wouldn't say it's "bad" in these cases but of couse not the best outcome DPS wise.

For Soul Cleave: I personally only use it if I am in need of the heal, that is emergency cases. In my last full ToS HC run I used SC twice - once on Fallen Avatar, once on Kil'jaeden.
This however depends on your group composition as well - we generally have two RDruids out of 4 healers overall (for ~16-18 players), so I can rely on hots to top me off.

Pretty interesting. How do you usually cope with the souls delay ? I get some funky numbers, like when I have 3 souls idling and I use fracture, sometimes I get 4 souls...
Also do you usually wait at least 1 GCD after fracture before using Spirit bomb ? Like for example 3 souls > frature > shear (actually any spell besides the ones that give souls) > spirit bomb ?

[Deleted]

Shear can also generate fragments, but depending on your haste level (Heroism) and server lag you should even be able to do something like Fracture -> Fracture -> Fracture -> Spirit Bomb and end up with 2 fragments after Spirit Bomb - due to the mentioned delay between spawn, availability and despawn of old fragments.
If at 2 fragments before fracture, I'd add a Shear after the next Fracture before using Spirit Bomb. That way you can ensure at least 4 useable Fragments for Spirit Bomb. If you're going for min-maxing, just keep spamming Shear until you spawn another Fragment (without overcapping pain that is) and use Spirit Bomb at 5 then. You'll have to watch a weakaura for best results, though (something like this: https://wago.io/V1AjuRjGQ).

[Raiz]

This tracker definitely helps, thanks. Sometimes it doesn't match with the one from blizzard but i guess you can't expect a perfect result. At least it seems to be more reactive.

[Deleted]

That's exactly the point of this tracker
If you're tracking your fragments through Blizz's default UI, you won't have an accurate figure of your available fragments, due to the delay between fragment spawning and landing.
The WA I linked tries to track fragments when they spawn, which is about ~1.x second before you can actually use it. Very handy if you're playing with Fallout against multiple targets, to get an idea of the amount of fragments your Immo Aura just spawned. Especially in M+ you might not even have to use Fracture after pulling, due to 5+ fragments being available after Immo Aura. Just Shear once in those cases and Spirit Bomb after.

[tike]

So what are the 2 best relic traits? with NLC opening tomorrow what should we be aiming for? Fiery Demise seems like our best trait, but the 2nd? Infernal Force and Aura of Pain seem like strong dps choices, and Embrace the Pain for surv. im at 68 traits atm and with the boost from AK and the new quests along with the boost from M+ cache I don't see 69 taking very long.

[Semperfi1982]

So what are the 2 best relic traits? with NLC opening tomorrow what should we be aiming for? Fiery Demise seems like our best trait, but the 2nd? Infernal Force and Aura of Pain seem like strong dps choices, and Embrace the Pain for surv. im at 68 traits atm and with the boost from AK and the new quests along with the boost from M+ cache I don't see 69 taking very long.

also would like to know this + what are the best t2 options for vengeance, I took a look at the google doc but it was beyond me xD

[Munkky]

I have created a spreadsheet for how to figure out what relics to use. The instructions are on the first page.

There isn't an easy "choose x trait" so you have to use the sheet to figure it out. There's data in the "xxx sheets that shows the best relics/t2 traits for that style.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...BrnOc7N7i1N6kI

[Nahela]

Handy! The one question I have though is why is Torment the Weak rated so highly with zero defensive benefit?

[Munkky]

Handy! The one question I have though is why is Torment the Weak rated so highly with zero defensive benefit?

The sheet is dps oriented. The survival value of relics/crucible is extremely low. In general you will simply go for ilvl, if survival is your goal. However the dps increase is rather large.

[Nahela]

Fair enough!

I've currently only got Shadowbind and Chaotic Darkness on my relics at the moment, but for a raid night they've been ~5-8% damage and healing. A lot more than I would have expected from the crucible.

[Arthrix]

I have created a spreadsheet for how to figure out what relics to use. The instructions are on the first page.

There isn't an easy "choose x trait" so you have to use the sheet to figure it out. There's data in the "xxx sheets that shows the best relics/t2 traits for that style.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...BrnOc7N7i1N6kI

lmao @ "Updated Infusion of Light/Secure in the Light to a value of 0 until they fix the rppm of it. As the healing and damage procs share rppm"

this will literally never be fixed

[Munkky]

lmao @ "Updated Infusion of Light/Secure in the Light to a value of 0 until they fix the rppm of it. As the healing and damage procs share rppm"

this will literally never be fixed

LUL

/10char

[Munkky]

Changed some things around with the spreadsheet. A community member made it a little more streamlined and I changed all of the values on everything to be more accurate. So if you haven't copied the sheet in a while, now is a good time to redo it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[Kvistor]

Munkky will you be doing a youtube video when the new raid start? the new set bonuses, stat prio, legendary and other stuff?
or do you know if there someone who are doing that? =)

[Munkky]

Munkky will you be doing a youtube video when the new raid start? the new set bonuses, stat prio, legendary and other stuff?
or do you know if there someone who are doing that? =)

That's my plan. I'll update the guide and release a 735 video.

[Kvistor]

awesome m8 thanks.

[Kvistor]

Ive got a question m8. last night i got the legendary boots, from what i can see on icy veins its pretty good and one i should have equiped all the time, but what legdendary should i use it with?
atm i've got archimondes trinket, the tank shoulders, the bracers, the belt and the ring that grants leech with dimon spikes.
hope u can help. the tank in my guild cant help, since he is more focus on dps. and just refered me to icy viens =)