Guess Jaina's still a fem-varian then.

[Arrashi]

I guess that makes Velen a tactical genius.

He survived. And that makes his approach viable at minimum.

[Mehrunes]

He survived. And that makes his approach viable at minimum.

No, you don't get it. Pointlessly throwing yourself at a superior enemy is the way to go. Blaze, glory, all that nonsense.

[Tripzzz]

No, you don't get it. Pointlessly throwing yourself at a superior enemy is the way to go. Blaze, glory, all that nonsense.

Wasn't that the spirit of the Horde? I'm pretty sure the Orcs dream of dying in battle. Death before dishonor? Guess that was all talk.

[Arrashi]

No, you don't get it. Pointlessly throwing yourself at a superior enemy is the way to go. Blaze, glory, all that nonsense.

I have a good news for both of you. After his apperance in legion, velens goes all out hotline miami. I hope he will die within first 5 minutes of landing on argus.

[Combatbutler]

Wasn't that the spirit of the Horde? I'm pretty sure the Orcs dream of dying in battle. Death before dishonor? Guess that was all talk.

That might be true for orcs, but not for every other race in the horde.

[Tripzzz]

That might be true for orcs, but not for every other race in the horde.

Orcs are the backbone of the Horde. I would have thought the other races in the Horde would admire and respect the Orcs mentality and possibility get it themselves.

The Horde is always screaming "lok'tar ogar" which means "victory or death". lol

[Combatbutler]

Orcs are the backbone of the Horde. I would have thought the other races in the Horde would admire and respect the Orcs mentality and possibility get it themselves.

Not really no, these stupidity is mostly attached to orcs only

The Horde is always screaming "lok'tar ogar" which means "victory or death". lol

Orcs scream that, I don't recall non orcs running around shouting lok'tar

[Tripzzz]

Not really no, these stupidity is mostly attached to orcs only



Orcs scream that, I don't recall non orcs running around shouting lok'tar

It's a popular Horde catch phrase. Which is why I find the Horde running away from the fodder hilarious. I imagine them screaming "lok'tar ogar" as they flee.

[Combatbutler]

It's a popular Horde catch phrase. Which is why I find the Horde running away from the fodder hilarious. I imagine them screaming "lok'tar ogar" as they flee.

Players maybe, but races other than Orcs? Not really no.

[Mehrunes]

Orcs are the backbone of the Horde. I would have thought the other races in the Horde would admire and respect the Orcs mentality and possibility get it themselves.

And the leader during that fight is Sylvanas who is as pragmatic as you can get.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Orcs are the backbone of the Horde. I would have thought the other races in the Horde would admire and respect the Orcs mentality and possibility get it themselves.

The Horde is always screaming "lok'tar ogar" which means "victory or death". lol

Atleast orcs dont scream "not the face" (old blizz con refrence)

And orcs do that, not every race. That's like a human shouting for gnomeregon

[Zulkhan]

Wasn't that the spirit of the Horde? I'm pretty sure the Orcs dream of dying in battle. Death before dishonor? Guess that was all talk.

That concept was entirely tied to the orc's belief "better dead than slaves", one even Thrall has faith about. But that concept is applicable when you're standing your ground against an enemy trying to conquer you, where the literal only choices are give up or die fighting.

While this is vaguely applicable about the big picture regarding Legion, it didn't in the specific case of the Broken Shore. In that scenario were Horde and Alliance trying to conquer the demon's grounds, to prevent them to enter Azeroth in full force and close the Tomb of Sargeras once and for all. In that scenario, "give up" and "dying" aren't the only options, the third option is retreat and come up with a better plan to contain the Legion's menace, along saving the highest amount of troops to make an use of them for another, possibly more successful and differently planned attempt rather than wasting them for an assault revealing to have absolutely no hope of success.

Of course random orcs would follow that mantra in every single occasion because random people have no vision but leaders have one and understand what is better for their troops and their actual chances of victory. Hell, even those primitive Iron Horde fucks still shown a vague understanding of concepts like tactical retreat and military strategies in general (mostly thanks to Garrosh, I guess) at least those few times they didn't Leeeeeeeroooy'd around.

[Kallisto]

And I expected the Horde to get stomped by the powerful big ass demons chilling with Gul'dan. Not to get crushed by a bunch of fodder. Lol, they ran away from fodder.

Your average US soldier 1950s was a 100 times better trained, equipped and higher moral than your average Chinese. Yet they were pushed back by overwhelming numbers from the Chinese/North Korean border all the way to what is the essential North/South divide in Korea.

While even -I- will say numbers matter less than training and weaponry there does come a point where even the biggest rabble if large enough will overwhelm the best fighting forces in the world (If not including air support). That is what happened with the horde. The legions numbers were too great.

(Honestly I think some people don't actually realise how big the legion numbers are supposed to be and think of them as in lore something like a rag tag group like the scarlets.)

[Highwhale]

The entire premise of the Broken Shore is that Alliance fights with a small force of elite troops, Horde fights with legion of normal troops and both get overwhelmed.

Well we don't see what Alliance was overwhelmed in BS scenario before cutscene hits. But we see how Horde getting rekted by fodder BEFORE cutscene. Alliance was overwhelmed after Horde run (as we know from aftermath info). My point - if Horde was good enough and do what they must (hold flank and cover from high ground) Legion invasion could ended before it starts. Horde failed.

Also, horde backing out of fight was by far the best tactical decision they could do.

Yep you right. Retreating for weaklings is only right decision.

PS Seriously you all horde tryhards ignoring the one major fact - Horde didn't informed Alliance what they retreating - neither they somehow help Alliance to retreat (i will repeat Alliance was in worse tactical position for retreat). Leaving battle without warning is act of treason.

[Stormdash]

Having now seen this scenario, 99% of forum discussions on this subject are just vapid bullshit.

The Alliance rode into a bottleneck, the Horde rode up a ridge and ended up protecting their flank. This happened because those were the two paths forward from the side of the big lake of crap that Krosus that they happened to end up on. No preexisting strategy or agreement, no plan, just the Alliance end up going this way and the Horde that way because those were the paths open to them.

So right around the time the Alliance have ridden into the kill zone, the Horde are up on the ridge, and Gul'dan plays his hand and summons every demon ever to where the Alliance is. At the same time, a new portal opens up down the ridge from the Horde which A) cuts off their means down OFF the Ridge until closed even, and B) threatens to allow the Legion to flank the Alliance with more named demons if they are overwhelmed. It wasn't "just felbats", that's what Sylvanas is picking off while the players and other lore characters are pushing back a zerg rush of demons coming up the ridge at them. At which point the curbstomp battle down where the Alliance is hemmed in on the beach begins.

Now, the cinematic can have all sorts of fascinating detail, but the fundamental logistics remain the same -- the Horde are up on top of a damn cliffside and really have no option other than leaping to their deaths if they want to get to the Alliance in time to help with with that whole "every demon dungeon, raid, and major quest boss ever" problem they are having. Even cutting through the demons like butter, they'd be riding back down to Krosus, getting Thrall (if he's still in it) to get them across to where Alliance were, then go riding back around to the beach. To be honest, don't see the Alliance lasting that long against their odds even if the Horde had ONLY the travel time/distance to deal with and not the Legion portal as well.

PS Seriously you all horde tryhards ignoring the one major fact - Horde didn't informed Alliance what they retreating - neither they somehow help Alliance to retreat (i will repeat Alliance was in worse tactical position for retreat). Leaving battle without warning is act of treason.

And there is still as yet absolutely no rational or intelligent basis for concluding they left the Alliance hanging. Nor likely ever will be, because the logistics of the scenario make it very clear that there was nothing to be done at that point. Gul'dan had the upper hand, the Alliance were surrounded on four sides (beach, cliff, cliff, Wall O' Raid Bosses) with only their narrow path of entry to retreat to, and the Horde had no way to rally to them in any useful amount of time.

[Deleted]

And there is still as yet absolutely no rational or intelligent basis for concluding they left the Alliance hanging. Nor likely ever will be, because the logistics of the scenario make it very clear that there was nothing to be done at that point. Gul'dan had the upper hand, the Alliance were surrounded on four sides (beach, cliff, cliff, Wall O' Raid Bosses) with only their narrow path of entry to retreat to, and the Horde had no way to rally to them in any useful amount of time.

Sometimes perception is everything. It might *seem* like you have been left to die by your allies.

So I will defend Jaina here.

Remind me again why the Alliance ally themselves with people who always have the potential to betray them?

It seems that Blizzard's love for the Horde is as strong as ever.

[Zulkhan]

Sometimes perception is everything. It might *seem* like you have been left to die by your allies.

So I will defend Jaina here.

Well, throwing accusations without evidence is quite the preferred sport of Jaina.

[Stormdash]

Sometimes perception is everything. It might *seem* like you have been left to die by your allies.

And word for people under that perception vis a vis the Horde at the Broken Shore is "wrong". They're "wrong". Honestly, if anyone came away from the Broken Shore scenario with any pretense that it was doomed from the start, that body count was the only open question, wasn't paying enough attention.

[Florena]

Can we all agree to wait until we have the full story with the cinematic before arguing back and forth about an event we don't have all the details on yet?

[Highwhale]

And there is still as yet absolutely no rational or intelligent basis for concluding they left the Alliance hanging. Nor likely ever will be, because the logistics of the scenario make it very clear that there was nothing to be done at that point. Gul'dan had the upper hand, the Alliance were surrounded on four sides (beach, cliff, cliff, Wall O' Raid Bosses) with only their narrow path of entry to retreat to, and the Horde had no way to rally to them in any useful amount of time.

How about covering fire/magic etc? Horde was in better position - its their duty as ally to help Alliance retreat. But Sylvanas and Co just leave battle - no support not even warning. And as we see Alliance made it out but it takes Varian as sacrifice. So there was chance - Sylvanas just afraid to die.