I've seen plenty of people say "if I can't queue for it, I won't do it" in response to the two mythic only dungeons. Heroics are for them.
Also with a weekly lockout, mythics arent as good for farming.
I've seen plenty of people say "if I can't queue for it, I won't do it" in response to the two mythic only dungeons. Heroics are for them.
Also with a weekly lockout, mythics arent as good for farming.
They are here because some players won't be handle to handle Mythic dungeon difficulty.
They are here because some players flat out refuse to make multiplayer content if they can't queue for it and have an invite.
Heroic dungeons being required for the meta wouldn't make them more relevant, people who aren't interested would make them once and then forget them and people who want to queue would keep queueing.
Forgot to add that heroic dungeons now drop blood of sargeras like candies, got 5 from one run. You can get artifact power from other ways but heroic dungeons is still the fastest because it's spammable while the other alternative options (mythic dungeons level 1, world quests) aren't.
Your comment contradicts itself, it says i haven't raided shit, then says i've probably haven't raided past heroic which insinuates i do raid up to heroic. Just goes to show how bright a fellow you are.
I'll humor you and let you know that i indeed haven't raided past heroic(because "mythic" is 20 man only, epic fail right there), i however did raid heroic when it actually was what is known as mythic now. Still the fact that i haven't raided mythic in the current system doesn't prove in any way, shape, or form that the current system is not a failure. You know what proves that is was an utter failure? Losing more than 60% of your playerbase over an expansion.
Last edited by Ulfric Trumpcloak; 2016-06-22 at 08:56 AM.
It's to do with Mythic+ with their attitude of everybody needs to see everything, they set for mythic not to be a brick wall, because after that lies the never ending content of mythic+, so more people should be able to finish mythic dungeons... so they will be "easier" to complete since they are no more the hardest version.
The more content blizzard adds behind a gate, the easier the gate becomes to open.
People quit because there was nothing to do outside of raiding, not because raiding was bad.
Even if all mythic raiders left because their precious 10m group vanished, that would account for 2% of players leaving, not 60%.
Its a logical fallacy to assume that because raiding is down raiding must be bad - its everything else that drove players away, as many don't "only raid", but prefer a game full of alternatives, which were lacking in WoD. Players that stopped playing for other reasons obviously can't raid anymore either.
Besides, plenty people still raid, or at least used to until a few months ago. We're in content draught right now, any numbers on raiding are not very representative as more and more people stop playing at the end of a draught, no matter how good or bad the content is.
Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2016-06-22 at 09:51 AM.
That wasn’t the problem.
The problem was that there were no other pre-raid gearing options, other than queuing up for dungeons that required CC amongst a set of classes that occasionally didn’t have any.
The lockout can be altered, and the gear tuned accordingly. This isn’t an immutable design hurdle, it’s an easy fix.
Not really. Heroic dungeons used to be a gearing hop for raids, as well as having the meta-achievement for those who wanted to deal with an intermediate difficulty. Now, they’re doing neither of those things and don’t provide anything Mythic dungeons won’t.
As for queues, that’s another issue that’s relatively easily solvable. Put them in a queue while keeping the + system out of the queue.
So far, nobody seems to be able to explain the point in heroic dungeons. @Sargnagel is possibly the closest to the mark by suggesting that it’s another drop in difficulty in order to cater to difficulty fetishism further up the line.
And that’s ultimately bad design, as proven by the huge drop in raiding participation. I’m not sure what makes anyone think doing a similar thing with dungeons will turn out differently.
The point of Heroic Dungeons? A way to aquire gear with a higher base iLevel then on normal.
It's really all about tuning.
Mythic+ is the 5-man alternative to raiding. But Mythic sets the mechanics of the boss fights, so it's only a numbers game.
For Mythic+ to make sense there must be at least X levels that are doable to keep progression relevant.
So they can do the math on how the numbers at mythic+X need to be to make it so that mythic+(X+1) is just not doable. And then go down from there.
Which leads to mythic being quite an easy difficulty, because the numbers of the mechanics and bosses are determined by mythic+X.
If they tuned mythic to be hard and stack on-top, they would get a lot less levels and a lot less people who can do they content, which would make it quite a waste of time.
With titanforge you can still get upgrades from heroic dungeons, and you cant farm mythic dungeons 24/7. Heroic dungeons have not been relevant besides the dungeon achivments since wrath anyways.
That's how it used to work before the LFG tool. That's how it should work even with it. That's the ideal.
That's not the reality.
The reality is that people wipe a few times (or even just once) and leave, and then you wait for more people, and then maybe you wipe again, and other people leave, and then you get more people and you clear a boss but then wipe on the next one, and the healer gets kicked even though it was the tank's fault that you wiped... The reality is that most people are lazy and want a quick win and don't want to waste time wiping and learning the encounters.
Shit, I remember a Normal-mode Highmaul raid I did through the group finder tool - before Blackrock Foundry opened, so it's not like it was obsolete content - where we cleared Kargath and the Butcher, wiped once on Twin Ogron, and had 80% of the group drop without a word in the span of about a minute.
it's the same reason as for why mythic is not the only raid difficulty.
There are a lot of people that cannot handle mythic tuning.
What matters is that dungeons themselves stay relevant. Whether that's heroic, Mythic, etc is ultimately a moot point.
Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.
They are like LFR.
Pointless to serious players but still can act as a stepping stone for gearing.
And with Titanforging nothing in the game is pointless, even normals.
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You are just stuck on a word. Who cares if its heroic, who cares if its mythic. Heroics used to have a weekly lockout in TBC, now that place in content is for mythic dungeons.
Besides, all dungeons can drop titanforged. Nothing is pointless. But great attempt at creating a thread that perpetuates ignorance and falsehoods.
Yeah, I'm still going back to, if you want dungeons to be hard just make Heroics hard. If you want to force people to socialize, then remove Heroics queing and leave it for normal. I'm not thrilled with all this tying everything into Mythics. I know they really want to get people to "try the old school way again" but why not it happen organically. They offered Cross realm grouping and OQue was born that's organic, natural players doing their thing.
Tying more things into Mythics for one reason or another just doesn't feel right. Feels like they are just trying to force people into Mythics under the misguided notion that WoW is suddenly going to feel like Vanilla again in terms of socializing. I don't know how much it will affect me as I'll do all my runs with the guild, maybe just another means to kill off Alt play. I dunno.