HFC nerfs are in.

[judgementofantonidas]

With -30% dmg inc you can simply "stack" and easily survive+aoe Imps, not having Massgrip wont be a big deal.

we have been regularly doing the fight with no deathknight in the group. bring the player not the class.

[Octa]

we have been regularly doing the fight with no deathknight in the group. bring the player not the class.

Based on your guilds logs I'm going to assume you're talking about heroic? Yeah, everyone can do heroic without grips because the imps literally do nothing but split ring damage when a moron pops it.
On Mythic you can do it without grips as well but it isn't trivial for most guilds, specifically ones who took 8+ months to get to Mannoroth in the first place.

[Deja Thoris]

we have been regularly doing the fight with no deathknight in the group. bring the player not the class.

Lol hc. /10 chars

[EzG]

This has to be reduced more since specs all across the board are doing less damage

I imagine that guilds on Tuesday of the release of the prepatch will have a very hard time

They have to buff or nerf more

Not entirely sure a pre-patch for legion is meant to roflstomp all available content, even with raid nerfs. TBH if you really wanted to be 13/13m you really should have gotten it before the revamp, there has been plenty of time. A more general idea for the pre-patch is to understand how your character works now that it has been changed, and not so much to be nerfed or overpowered. You don't necessarily need an artifact to learn what your new abilities or ability changes do, many people before this post, not necessarily you in particular, seem upset to a slight degree that they will be nerfed because no artifact to buff their abilities. All will be well soon cause Legion is coming, much like winter although winter is here... in a couple months legion will be here... yes.

[Marrilaife]

On Mythic you can do it without grips as well but it isn't trivial for most guilds, specifically ones who took 8+ months to get to Mannoroth in the first place.

My guild is kinda forced to do it without grips because we have only 1 dk atm (at start we had 3 but 1 left and another switched class) and he isn't even always there and if he is, we save grip for emergency. Yes, the raid leader has to herd people a bit like stack (for imps) spread (for felseeker) etc.

We aren't a super hardcore guild but we're close to finishing with archi mounts for all raiders soon so it must have been 20+ kills by now.

[Octa]

My guild is kinda forced to do it without grips because we have only 1 dk atm (at start we had 3 but 1 left and another switched class) and he isn't even always there and if he is, we save grip for emergency. Yes, the raid leader has to herd people a bit like stack (for imps) spread (for felseeker) etc.

We aren't a super hardcore guild but we're close to finishing with archi mounts for all raiders soon so it must have been 20+ kills by now.

Yeah, I said it's doable for sure without grips. It's just not like "lol we do it without grips every week (but I won't mention it is heroic) bring the player you noobs"

[Gemini Soul]

so fire or ice is better at 100^^

Only those who follow the lord of light shall be better than others, now get into the pyre so we can burn you alive

[Marrilaife]

Yeah, I said it's doable for sure without grips. It's just not like "lol we do it without grips every week (but I won't mention it is heroic) bring the player you noobs"

My point was I didn't exactly count the dates but my current guild might be well into "taking 8+ months to progress" territory. Ofc it's different than raiding normal / heroic only but it's completely different from world top guilds that can do everything with eyes closed and hands behind their back.

Also personally I won't feel jelly if prepatch nerfs HFC to the point some less progressed guilds can finally stomp mythic Archi. What I really cared about was having him killed enough times before the mount is removed so the whole team gets it. Guilds that kill it on prepatch and get 4-5 mounts will only be able to give it to few lucky rollers (or guild officers...) Even when I personally got the mount I would still feel bad for leftover people if they didn't get theirs since they worked for it too. I think we have about 4 more people on the list, some of them recruited after our first kill but still stuck around long enough to say they worked on it too. After that if there are some weeks left I guess it'll go to freshly promoted trials or something.

Ofc guilds that killed M Archi pre-valor are at the stage now they're selling the mounts because all of their raiders own it.

[Deleted]

This has to be reduced more since specs all across the board are doing less damage

I imagine that guilds on Tuesday of the release of the prepatch will have a very hard time

They have to buff or nerf more

When you nerf HP + damage of a boss you double nerf for the healers and tanks. That might make the bosses much easier than you think. It might even make them harder to kill for the DPSes but easier in overall.

I know SoO as a healer was a joke, it was like doing heroic during the prepatch. Discs could almost solo it undergeared.

[Octa]

My point was I didn't exactly count the dates but my current guild might be well into "taking 8+ months to progress" territory. Ofc it's different than raiding normal / heroic only but it's completely different from world top guilds that can do everything with eyes closed and hands behind their back.

Also personally I won't feel jelly if prepatch nerfs HFC to the point some less progressed guilds can finally stomp mythic Archi. What I really cared about was having him killed enough times before the mount is removed so the whole team gets it. Guilds that kill it on prepatch and get 4-5 mounts will only be able to give it to few lucky rollers (or guild officers...) Even when I personally got the mount I would still feel bad for leftover people if they didn't get theirs since they worked for it too. I think we have about 4 more people on the list, some of them recruited after our first kill but still stuck around long enough to say they worked on it too. After that if there are some weeks left I guess it'll go to freshly promoted trials or something.

Ofc guilds that killed M Archi pre-valor are at the stage now they're selling the mounts because all of their raiders own it.

I mean it seems like we're saying the same thing? I dunno your point isn't really clear to me.

[Marrilaife]

I mean it seems like we're saying the same thing? I dunno your point isn't really clear to me.

I dunno it sounded to me as if you said if the guild took 8 months to clear mythic they won't be good enough to kill Manno with no dks. Unless I misunderstood you.

With the rest I agree.

[Octa]

I dunno it sounded to me as if you said if the guild took 8 months to clear mythic they won't be good enough to kill Manno with no dks. Unless I misunderstood you.

With the rest I agree.

You did misunderstand. I said it isn't trivial specifically for those guilds. That is very different from "they can't do it"

[Marrilaife]

You did misunderstand.

Okay then, my bad.

[MrExcelion]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745586779#1

Test it out and give feedback folks

[Deleted]

Blackhand and Archie wont have 100% drop chance for their mythic mounts in prepatch. Also the moose from heroic goes away in prepatch.

Wrong. Prepatch does not affect mythic only drop mounts, it hasn't with Garrosh, it hasn't with DS, it hasn't with ICC.

The drop rate is nerfed once the expansion goes like, so on the 30th of August.

- - - Updated - - -

They didn't do nerfs per se. They revamped classes to Legion abilities/talents etc and tuned around HAVING the artifact. Which we won't get till Legion launch. Nerfs are a byproduct of the class revamp systems, that's all.

Wrong. The average output per class went down by 30% in some cases even 50%, mainly because of the trinket nerfs.

At the current balancing a 30% nerf will not be enough.

- - - Updated - - -

When you nerf HP + damage of a boss you double nerf for the healers and tanks. That might make the bosses much easier than you think. It might even make them harder to kill for the DPSes but easier in overall.

I know SoO as a healer was a joke, it was like doing heroic during the prepatch. Discs could almost solo it undergeared.

SoO you didn't even need a healer after prepatch, bosses were dead in half a minute.

[Fabinas]

Wrong. The average output per class went down by 30% in some cases even 50%, mainly because of the trinket nerfs.

At the current balancing a 30% nerf will not be enough.

So the whole revamp of classes and talents (also known as the "prune"), the change of coefficients in every ability has absolutely NOTHING to do with the lower dps of every relative spec. It's just the damn trinkets. Riiiiiight....

[effs]

So the whole revamp of classes and talents (also known as the "prune"), the change of coefficients in every ability has absolutely NOTHING to do with the lower dps of every relative spec. It's just the damn trinkets. Riiiiiight....

yeah it's not just trinkets :P My dps has lowered by ~50%, especially on burst as destro (just tested on a couple bosses in HFC which we wiped on normal somehow with mythic people in the group). But pre-patch is pre-patch. We'll be 110 soon.

[Fabinas]

yeah it's not just trinkets :P My dps has lowered by ~50%, especially on burst as destro (just tested on a couple bosses in HFC which we wiped on normal somehow with mythic people in the group). But pre-patch is pre-patch. We'll be 110 soon.

Oh, i also forgot to mention the new masteries of many specs, the new resources (all locks back to shards, shamans with maelstrom, balance druids with astral power etc). Definitely those have nothing to do with the lower dps of all specs. Just the trinkets... They even nerfed the Kazzak trinkets to half of their ratings. Thank God, i thought i forgot how to play... (/sarcasm off)

[effs]

Oh, i also forgot to mention the new masteries of many specs, the new resources (all locks back to shards, shamans with maelstrom, balance druids with astral power etc). Definitely those have nothing to do with the lower dps of all specs. Just the trinkets... They even nerfed the Kazzak trinkets to half of their ratings. Thank God, i thought i forgot how to play... (/sarcasm off)

Lol, quoted the wrong post. rip.

[Fabinas]

Lol, quoted the wrong post. rip.

Nah, i quoted you, so that a person who reads the thread has continuity on the subject.