European Superstate Incoming

[Mormolyce]

Borders are as silly as the idea that people should be able to have self determination and sovereignty I guess.

You're completely begging the question. Which people? Why these lines on the map instead of different ones?

Why should France and Germany have autonomy from each other - but not Berlin and Hamburg?

[Deletedaccount1]

Borders are silly things anyway created by mankind....
The only way forward is by working together untill we become 1 world state were everyone is treated equall.... we can call it ... EARTH ....

People trying are trying way to hard trying to preserve their own way of life. Unified earth is the future and we'll get there step by step ... maybe in 10.000 years or so ;p

So is currency, property rights, rights in general.

How far do you want to go?

[nonameelf]

Those people don't suddenly become completely different people at the border you know, they blend. The lines on the map were very different 1,000 years ago. And many ethnicities have come into existence and disappeared in that time. Shit nations didn't really even exist in the modern sense in the Middle Ages, it used to be every little duchy and fiefdom for itself. But then guess what, the differences between areas within countries became less important and a sense of national identity emerged... you know, like what's happening with Europe now...

Just because things are a certain way doesn't mean they should stay that way.

Why should they change? Why should the people of these countries give up their power to a foreign body where they likely won't have a big enough voice to make decisions for themselves?

Just look at Scotland. They voted to stay in the EU, but since the English voted to leave the Scottish now have to leave as well. The Scottish don't have enough power to even make their own decisions on some matters.

Or look at EU members who opt out of NATO like Ireland and Austria, they don't want to be involved in wars. If they became states of a unified Europe they'd then find themselves in wars that they'd rather have no part in and they're not big enough to have their voice heard.

[Consternation]

If states in america can never agree on legislation I don't know the fuck an eu superstate would.

Nothing major gets done in the EU anyway as it is.

[Wikko]

That would never happen. Even suggesting something like that seriously would drive other countries to leave EU.

[Kuntantee]

The EU as a institution is inevitable, people complain about how it evolved from basic trade partnership to something bigger while ignoring the reason why. Basic principles of the EU is the free movement of people and goods, in order to achieve this every country has to follow the same basic rules and regulations or it would end up becoming a mess if every country has it's own rules.

It must be so hard to see the difference between an organic institution such as a government and a superficial union such as EU. Let's forget about the cultural differences, it is a big obstacle, but easiest to get rid of, mutual intelligibility is still non-existent in EU. The superstate needs one official language. This is crucial in time of crisis and war. The continental Europe needs one or two generations of people who are native in their mother tongue, and the official state language. Also, the superstate is going to be much poorer because a good portion of Europe, as a continent, is economically not as strong as Germany. Are richer Western European nations willing to share their riches with poorer Eastern European nations? Also there is too much history in Europe that was not the case when USA was forming. European nations are distinct nations, not Anglo-saxon offshoots like USA.

Trying to unify Europe as it could be a single political/social entity is recipe to disaster.

[Cybran]

There won't a unified Europe, because the western part is populated by racists.

[Revi]

You're completely begging the question. Which people? Why these lines on the map instead of different ones?

Why should France and Germany have autonomy from each other - but not Berlin and Hamburg?

Because people there want it that way, because it works. I don't have anything against a global state if the people in every country on the planet wants it and it works, but they don't. Sovereign territories usually lose their sovereignty by outside force, and gain it through force from within. Much of the reason being that people like having self determination.

[Kuntantee]

Also not sure why the EU members need that common culture or language? I can go to the US and the difference between lets say Texas and New York would be just as big as going to England and Scotland for example.

Yes, because all of these examples lived together, using the same language with tons of cultural exchange. For USA case, it's two part of same nation. Try to go from United Kingdom to Romania or from Holland to Greece.

As for same language, absolute, absolute must for military. European superstate army needs to use one single language which all of its members (soldiers and officers) must be native speakers of that said language. Single official language will also boost the governmental productivity.

[Deleted]

There won't a unified Europe, because the western part is populated by racists.

Strange how millions of clowns, many of them unable to count to three, still want to come here.

[ati87]

lol nah, EU was germany's way of ruling the continent and you fools fell for it

stand for nothing and you will fall for anything.

Can you please stop talking? This comparison to Nazi's is getting a bit tiresome without any proof to back up your claim.

The only Nazi's I see here is the side that keeps on comparing the EU governing body to a Nazi regime either directly or in your case indirectly. The pro EU argument as a whole never really uses scare tactics, ) while the Anti EU argument keeps on using the same tactics used by the Nazi's and their fascist alias to keep people scared of the ''others''.

EU = it's members, not some foreign entity

[breadisfunny]

there is nothing wrong with the u.s. having a massive military.

[TwoNineMarine]

Every poll tells a different story, since the younger generations are way more in favour of the EU than the older generations, so the attempted unification is well on it´s way.

It's almost as though the older generation has seen what happens when a government entity tries to implement a "unified" Europe.

Didn't really work out for a lot of people as I recall.

[nonameelf]

EU needs to become more united if it wants to survive into the next decades. The world is changing and developing fast, and European countries as single states will sooner or later become absolutely irrelevant. This is mostly true for the smaller countries (Czechia, Croatia, Hungary,...) but by the time countries like Poland can reach the economical power of the West, the world will already be dominated by huge markets like Mexico, Ethiopia, Nigeria, you name it. And eventually these countries will outgrow even places like Germany.

Why is an economic union not good enough for that? Why would they need to be unified in other ways as well?

[Deleted]

EU's biggest problem is their national politics. People feel more than ever before they are <insert nationality> over Europeans. And even in national politics we can see a clear rift between technocrats and populists and many many people who completely feel left alone by any political party. Central state is the opposite of what we need.

People want to identify themselves and their lives with politics, they want to care about stuff that will involve them directly. Integration processes do not require national countries or unions - there are other possibilities. Making NGOs stronger, giving certain regions more rights etc.

[Rend Blackhand]

So when right wingers use this European culture argument to make sure Turkey doesn't become a member they are just talking BS then? Because they have managed to make sure the Turkish government is so sick of the games that they aren't even bothering to look for the approval of the EU.

Also not sure why the EU members need that common culture or language? I can go to the US and the difference between lets say Texas and New York would be just as big as going to England and Scotland for example.

We have a system that allows us to achieve more as a group then as individuals. As a individual country we are't investing a ton of money into research while our neighbors are investing into the same thing, no we are investing together.

The EU as a institution is inevitable, people complain about how it evolved from basic trade partnership to something bigger while ignoring the reason why. Basic principles of the EU is the free movement of people and goods, in order to achieve this every country has to follow the same basic rules and regulations or it would end up becoming a mess if every country has it's own rules.

The whole EU is a fucking comedy club. Do you see why some people voted to leave now?

[Deleted]

Hopefully Denmark and Sweden leaves before being forced into the euro failure

Denmark Sweden Norway alliance.

[oxymoronic]

EU = it's members, not some foreign entity

ruled by germany

[Deleted]

only mad people promote nationalism, nationalism is what drived Germany to start the 2 world wars where millions died. I am in favor of a united Europe that promotes the culture of the european people ... We all know how Europe looked and did when it was fragmented (wars wars wars) ... i believe in unity is power

The future of the human race is not borders ,fragmentation, nationalism, racism or religion ... to evolve and look to the futures we must leave behind the tribal barbaric mind ... as a great comedian said "we are just apes with machine guns" ... we have to pass that

Fixed that. Other than that good post.

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Impossible due to linguistic and cultural differences.

Most people know English. Might as well go with it along with other languages.

[Deleted]

The EU vote in the UK is a pretty good example. Scotland and North Ireland voted to stay in the EU but that doesn't mean shit because the English have more power than them.

Don't think you understand how it worked.... NorthERN Ireland (see the correction?) and Scotland did vote to remain that is true, but Wales and England voted to leave. They were all added together and because of England having a larger population, they pulled the numbers ahead (barely) for leave. Nothing to do with "more power" unless you are talking about citizen power vs government power.