Crafting useless if you raid normal or hc?

[Hexxidecimal]

Yes but as an endgame method of character progression it won't be more than a stepping stone. If you'd be able to upgrade one item every month to the iLvl cap if you put in the time and effort then crafting would actually be a worthwhile activity for a long time.
Make it BOP after the initial 850 iLvls or something.

Eh. One of this games main motivation is gear. To allow people to acquire gear that is mythic level from crafting I think is unrealistic. At least in the way they have it designed in WoW. Unless they put in some crazy upgrade system like BDO where crafted gear can be the best because the cap for "the best" is basically unlimited which would keep people on the hook indefinitely.

[Mytheros]

By that logic, then then once you have manged to kill that boss (almost always by beating the enrage timer) then you no longer NEED better gear to face that content. Also, top guilds have proven again and again and again that they don't NEED all of the best gear to down the newest bosses... so should we stop giving them better gear?

Regardless, need or want, a driving force behind nearly all computer gaming (particularly WoW) is some sort of progression. If someone wants (or feels they need) to kill quest mobs in a global, then who are we to say that is wrong?

Well you don't want a practical reasoning, so I'll just pull the easy out card What you say doesn't matter because Blizzard (you know the people that make the game) actually agree with my logic more than yours...they also don't feel if you don't raid you don't need the best gear in the game....since they make the game (and thus the rules)...that's all that really matters.

In another way of saying it -- if you don't raid (or compete at the highend in arena) you flat out SHOULD NOT have the best gear come your way for no other simple reason than just the prinicple of "you should only get the best rewards in a game for doing the most challenging content".

*Note: I'll add a disclaimer because I have a feeling if I don't some smartass will pull the "Well in Legion anyone can get a Legendary and they are the best gear in the game!".....my counter to that is -- a) use some common sense please...b) you aren't going to fully slot out your entire character in legendries, in fact based on what I have heard from Blizz so far I'm not sure that scenario is even going to be allowed to be possible....so we are talking about "normal gearing" versus a couple pieces of legendary gear (mind you that will take the course of the expansion to even acquire based on current plans blizzard has).

[Peach774]

Crafted items become useful the moment raiding happens aswell. The obliterum lvl cap matches raiding. When Emerald Nightmare opens, the ilvl of crafted gear can be increased up to 895.

[roahn the warlock]

Wait...you interrupt "not raiding" as being bad at the game?

Also raiders still get better stuff. Crafted stuff Tops out at 850. That is the lowest level of normal raid gear. If anything rolls higher then you have better gear and the moment you start doing mythics, well the results are obvious yeah?

Maybe I missing something...or you are. How far back did you read before posting a response?

Unless you're doing PvP, yes? If you're not raiding, you're bad at the game. Since... Well, let me explain. If you buy say.. Mario, and you never kill Bowser. Means you're bad, right? Seeing as raiding is the end PVE-game content. Yeah, you're bad at it. You can't be "Good" at dungeons. Cause let's be honest here, the people who are gonna get the highest in mythic+ will probably be raiders. Because we know how to work in a team.

[kimicate]

Unless you're doing PvP, yes? If you're not raiding, you're bad at the game. Since... Well, let me explain. If you buy say.. Mario, and you never kill Bowser. Means you're bad, right? Seeing as raiding is the end PVE-game content. Yeah, you're bad at it. You can't be "Good" at dungeons. Cause let's be honest here, the people who are gonna get the highest in mythic+ will probably be raiders. Because we know how to work in a team.

Lebron and Curry carried their team. And in my opinion most of thn dont play at higher level, just to fill the bench! You cant say some ppl are bad at the game just bcuz they dont raid. You cant raid alone!

[Kaldriss]

crafting is set up to be an alternate character progression along side dungeons and raiding, so its reasonable that crafting gets you to around normal raiding, also if you dont raid you can still do mythic+ dungeons for higher level gear

[Deleted]

I don't get why crafting items are so bad. Why would you craft when it isn't even better than heroic dungeon gear? The base-item is total crap, why even putting it into the game when all they exist for is to get upgraded by another item? And even then... normal raid ilvl? They lost it after cataclysm with their profession and currency-items.

[Gambit5555]

Playing devil advocate on this though -- you are confusing NEED with WANT. You may WANT to kill faster if you don't raid but you don't NEED to kill faster. There is a difference. With raids it can be things like enrage timers you are against and just the common sense of its a raid -- its a much more difficult content therefore the enhanced gear is required to be successful.

In the world as long as you aren't being stupid - like at level 70 trying to kill things that are for level 100....OR trying to hit up a world boss AT LEVEL by yourself...you probably aren't going to be in too bad of danger, where high end "raid quality gear" isn't going to save your life it will just make it more convenient for you. In raids -- outfit an entire raid in craptastic gear....have fun with that.

With Suramar and all the rares, the ability to kill stuff before it kills you can be essential. So if you want to talk about need, the need is just as much there for non-raiders.

[roahn the warlock]

With Suramar and all the rares, the ability to kill stuff before it kills you can be essential. So if you want to talk about need, the need is just as much there for non-raiders.

Grasping at straws here man. If you want better gear, put on your big boy pants and use the LFG tool to join a quick raid and grab some items. I promise the other kids won't be mean to you.

If you ever want to figure out warcraft. Take a moment and pretend it's a roleplaying game. And you're actually your character. Who is better, the hero who vanquished Archemonde (Mythic, the real one). Or the guy who picked some herbs in his fort.

[FelPlague]

This is false. Blizzard has stated that this restriction is removed in Legion

correct, the reason they are no longer "BIS in heroic" and now "on par with normal" is because of this, to stop people from being able to build a full set of heroic BIS gear, instead able to build a full set of gear equal to normal BIS

[Syld]

Did all of you completely miss the fact that when raids open the cap on crafted gear will go up to 895 ilvl?

[FelPlague]

I don't get why crafting items are so bad. Why would you craft when it isn't even better than heroic dungeon gear? The base-item is total crap, why even putting it into the game when all they exist for is to get upgraded by another item? And even then... normal raid ilvl? They lost it after cataclysm with their profession and currency-items.

so imagine you were working on progressing heroics for weeks, then a guy shows up in full heroic BIS gear, and how did he get it? crafting, every single peice of his, even his artifact relics, crafted, making him 10 times better then you, and has not touched a raid ever

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Did all of you completely miss the fact that when raids open the cap on crafted gear will go up to 895 ilvl?

and yes people seem to be missing that :P

[roahn the warlock]

so imagine you were working on progressing heroics for weeks, then a guy shows up in full heroic BIS gear, and how did he get it? crafting, every single peice of his, even his artifact relics, crafted, making him 10 times better then you, and has not touched a raid ever

Oh, These people don't care. They are the gaming equivalent of the minions movie. They like bright lights, loud noises, and flashy colors, but don't give a damn about substance.

[FelPlague]

Oh, These people don't care. They are the gaming equivalent of the minions movie. They like bright lights, loud noises, and flashy colors, but don't give a damn about substance.

minion movie? wut? you mean those things from despicable me? did they really get a movie? or is that what people are nick naming the second dispicable me

omfg... god danmit... they were funny... but not whole movie on their own funny... its like giving dory from finding nemo a... wait a minute...

[Fallensaint]

Did all of you completely miss the fact that when raids open the cap on crafted gear will go up to 895 ilvl?

Because it doesn't? Crafted gear caps at 850, which is why the max item level cap is 850 before raids open up. 895 is the maximum possible item level available through titanforging after raids open up, but the crafted gear cap won't be raised until the next raid tier becomes available.

[Faenskap]

minion movie? wut? you mean those things from despicable me? did they really get a movie? or is that what people are nick naming the second dispicable me

omfg... god danmit... they were funny... but not whole movie on their own funny... its like giving dory from finding nemo a... wait a minute...

Oh yes, they have their own film! Amazing, isn't it? If I ever become an inventor, I'll target children and thus their parents' wallets

[Deleted]

Crafting will be amazing at the start of the expansion due to Obliterum.

As you dont have 3 profs at your main no you wont have obliterium fast.

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Sounds like the perfect system for the economy and the trade scene to grow.

you forgot the /s there. fact is if you're not solo playing but with a guild crafted gear is pretty useless.

[Hexxidecimal]

Unless you're doing PvP, yes? If you're not raiding, you're bad at the game. Since... Well, let me explain. If you buy say.. Mario, and you never kill Bowser. Means you're bad, right? Seeing as raiding is the end PVE-game content. Yeah, you're bad at it. You can't be "Good" at dungeons. Cause let's be honest here, the people who are gonna get the highest in mythic+ will probably be raiders. Because we know how to work in a team.

Well I see your logic, buuuut I have to disagree with it. Not raiding doesn't necessarily mean you can't. There are a plethora of other reasons why someone wouldn't raid who would otherwise be good at it. Take myself for instance. For while my guild raided and we were successful. We weren't cutting edge progress raiders. But we generally always finished the content long before the next raid opened up. We did this for BC and Wrath specifically. I quit doing it because I simply began to prioritize other things in my life more. It wasn't that I was bad at raiding. It's just stopped being my priority. Further more I got tired of the constant guild drama that surrounded getting raid spots. If I really wanted to I have no doubt that I could get back into raiding and be a useful member of a raid team. Mean while me and my group of friends from those days will be doing Mythic+ dungeons. We know how to work together, we just don't care to raid anymore.

Basically there is difference between not raiding and not being good at raiding, or being bad at the game in this case. Also comparing an MMO to a side scroller is not an apt comparison. They are two different style of games. One of those games entire purpose is beat Bowser at the end. Everything in the game leads to that goal. The very act of playing the game leads to that goal. An MMO is, at it's core, is different. The game and it's system have multiple options for enjoyment at "end game". The game never forces you into a raid. Meanwhile if you play mario, if you have the skill level, eventually you don't have choice. MMO's give many choices however. You can simply sit and play the AH and make a lot of money, you can pet battle, you can RP and create RP events, you can PvP, you can just do Mythic Dungeons, you can collect all the gear for transmog etc etc. In essence you can make the end game whatever you want it to be. Whatever portion of the game brings you the most amount of joy is what you can do to your hearts content. Even if you disagree with me on this point you can't deny that anyone person who focuses on something else other than raiding does not necessarily mean they are bad at it, or even bad at the game.

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Grasping at straws here man. If you want better gear, put on your big boy pants and use the LFG tool to join a quick raid and grab some items. I promise the other kids won't be mean to you.

If you ever want to figure out warcraft. Take a moment and pretend it's a roleplaying game. And you're actually your character. Who is better, the hero who vanquished Archemonde (Mythic, the real one). Or the guy who picked some herbs in his fort.

Why do LFG or LFR when crafted stuff is better than that? But in regards to the bold part, can you not see the flaw in logic here? Were this an actual world (which it isn't and so your point is actually moot) that we all lived in, then both would be necesary to keep the world moving. Crafters, builders, farmers, gatherer's would be as important or even more so in a functioning real world society. They create the backbone of any society. Who is "better" is a flawed way of looking at it in the first place. Were this games world reality, the guys who craft and gather would be just as important as the guy fighting Archimonde.

[Nethlord]

Honest question. If you aren't raiding or doing Mythic+ dungeons then why do you need such powerful gear?

This is a poor question that keeps popping up over and over with this game. It's based on flawed logic. Gear=stats and it is the single thing that makes a lick of difference for this game. Having high stats are not a luxury, it is a necessity....for ALL aspects of the game. Also, having multiple clear roads to quality gear makes sense; historically we've only had one road to gear of worth...raiding. Yet if crafting is pining out to be as the OP is stating... then crafting gear, yet again, becomes nonsense. Might as well craft perishables (gems,incript,pots...) and make money then try making out the gate obsolete gear that is nice for about a month.

But please stop using this mentality in regards to gear, it is not in the providence of raiding alone, you don't even need the really great pieces you get from the raid...FOR THE RAID (and you never did). Don't believe me? How did you obtain the incredible piece in the first place? Using gear from a lesser difficulty to take down the boss/raid of the current tier? Doesn't it make the loot you just got pointless? You didn't need to it kill him, so why do you need it now? To kill stuff faster right? Yea...just play the game for fun and not the illusion that any of the gear is the purpose to play.

[Hexxidecimal]

This is a poor question that keeps popping up over and over with this game. It's based on flawed logic. Gear=stats and it is the single thing that makes a lick of difference for this game. Having high stats are not a luxury, it is a necessity....for ALL aspects of the game. Also, having multiple clear roads to quality gear makes sense; historically we've only had one road to gear of worth...raiding. Yet if crafting is pining out to be as the OP is stating... then crafting gear, yet again, becomes nonsense. Might as well craft perishables (gems,incript,pots...) and make money then try making out the gate obsolete gear that is nice for about a month.

But please stop using this mentality in regards to gear, it is not in the providence of raiding alone, you don't even need the really great pieces you get from the raid...FOR THE RAID (and you never did). Don't believe me? How did you obtain the incredible piece in the first place? Using gear from a lesser difficulty to take down the boss/raid of the current tier? Doesn't it make the loot you just got pointless? You didn't need to it kill him, so why do you need it now? To kill stuff faster right? Yea...just play the game for fun and not the illusion that any of the gear is the purpose to play.

Sometimes you need better gear to kill the stuff AFTER him. I remember farming a few of the other wings of Nax for quite some time till everyone was geared enough to finally kill patchwerk.

But that being said. I am curious, in what way would you implement crafted gear that is raid level quality but in a way that doesn't make raiding pointless? Not saying it's not possible. I bet it's entirely possible. But rather than argue that it shouldn't be done, I would rather know how it could be done. Ya know have an constructive conversation lol.