Losing interest in every class.

[melodramocracy]

I'm not denying it was a big part of the game, just that it was really pointless. DPS should be able to go ham at the start of an encounter even if the tank is bad at dpsing, because it's funnier for the DPS. As I said raiding with a bad or outgeared tank was frustrating. Threat gen was replaced by optimising DPS for tanks and the DPS can now be free of Omen. New tanks can now have the time to learn to tank without being bullied by DPS who only want to have fun.

It wasn't pointless at all. If anything, it was another element of teamwork that was needed to do well, and a bit of decision making on the part of dps (for those that had threat droppers or redirectors). Knowing you go all out right at the start, pre-potting, etc, as standard practice is far more boring.

[Gadzooks]

Threat management and threat generation was a big part of the game. Both for tanks and DPS. As a tank you would sometimes change your build, or gear if you were having threat problems. And that was one of the things that separated good tanks from bad tanks. Your threat generation was as important as boss positioning and survival.
As a DPS your threat management was a big part of your job too. You don't just mash all the buttons to go batshit crazy on the boss - you actually think, plan your bursts etc. Some classes had abilities they could utilize (another thing that made those classes unique in some sort) a rogue could vanish, a hunter could feign death and so on.
Mana management was an issue in most of the fights, not in some when progressing undergeared in the last tier raid.

And if you never lost threat on untauntable bosses - you have been playing with DPS that actually gave a shit and controlled their threat levels.
We used to have fun on farm runs with my DPS friends where they would try and catch aggro of the trash mobs or the boss, just to fuck with me and see if they could.
Now it is virtually impossible to pull aggro of a tank even if he is a complete moron that doesn't understand what the fuck he is doing.

I won't be surprised that you can go blood presence or defensive stance in LFR while outgearing the tank by 40-50 ilvls and you still won't pull aggro.

You make some good points - I used vanish raiding as a rogue in Vanilla/TBC, but starting in Wrath, would get yelled at even in LFR if I wasn't on top of the meters. I recall some very big fights in Dragon Soul lfr, where kick was necessary, but would drop your DPS - and having to face "Start kicking DPS" and having to explain to the try hards that we can't interrupt AND stay on top of the charts.

It's yet again players vs. design, the "GOGOGOGO" and "What are the meters?" mentality, forcing everyone to tunnel vision bosses, and even trash (which is funny, if you think about it.)

So,I don't think it will matter how they design the classes, after the first week it will be back to "GOGOGOGO" and "start kicking DPS" and booting healers if they don't have 100% uptime on every member of the raid. It doesn't matter. Nobody cares about class flavor, they want an easy carry in pugs, and perfect performance in raids. Everyone is complaining that warlocks are too much like mages - but you know all of you will be tunnel vision on a boss almost immediately, with no thought or care for 'flavor". You'll do it, because it's expected, and punished if it's not done.

I agree that what they're doing now to the classes is too far, to plain, they've ground off anything interesting in this wierd quest for asolute parity. But, there was just as much complaining and abuse and whinging when classes were unique and fun. As a rogue, i know this intimately, as players have cried and moaned and tried to take away almost every tool in my toolbox from day one in vanilla. It doesn't matter, because no matter what they do, if I was still playing I'd be forced to comply with the demands of the majority of players, who don't give a single fuck about class flavor or design, all they want is perfect carries and lootz. I did it for 3 expansions - I fully admit it. I didn't like it, but it was the only way to play with the least drama and headaches.

[Rollcage8]

I'm not losing interest in every class, but I did lose interest in classes that I have played extensively before the changes. I'm okay with this however as that's just bringing my own baggage of what I enjoyed about the class.

I don't think I could play WoW for this many years and not be prepared to changes classes at the end of an expansion.

Instead of "woe, my class sucks" that a lot of players go through. I merely play and test all classes/specialisations and races until something new and exciting in game play happens. Sometimes my previous existing class is changed in a way that preserved the game play, sometimes it hasn't. In such cases that character remains as an alt to be played on occasion.

[Deleted]

I'm a little lost about why people feel classes will be gimped and stripped down in Legion. After extensive testing over the last few months of alpha / beta I'd say they made it better. I do mostly play tank / healer though so I can't say anything about dps classes. But for most part I feel that the rotations and playstyles are more solid now than they were in WoD. But my idea of a tank is a meathead soaking up damage, not absorbing / outhealing it. So that might factor in a bit.

[trm90]

Honestly the PTR is the absolute best thing you could play right now. You can try out all 30+ specs in stuff like proving grounds or legion invasions and get a feel for them.

You will be REALLY surprised to find completely new fun classes. I've disliked rogues and DKs for the longest time, but hugely enjoyed Assa/Sub and Unholy/Frost. I thought Fire Mages and Resto Druids would be to my liking, but they were very boring to me. The list goes on.

Just give it a go. Try out that one class that makes you feel absolutely nothing when you think about playing them - they could turn out to be a new favourite. And don't just spend 3 minute on a training dummy with each spec. Do what I did - jump into Gold/Endless proving grounds and push your class to the limit to see what they can do, and see if it feels fun and/or rewarding.

[Elestia]

Artifacts makes very little difference. Most perks are just the old talents (1%/2%/3%) in increases to spells (YAWN!), and the golden dragons are either lackluster or downright stupid.

I play Paladin, Hunter, Rogue, Warlock and Warrior, and the ONLY class I like more is Warrior. The others range from boring to downright abyssmal.

Artifacts make a huge difference for all warlock and rogue specs.

Outlaw is a new spec, demo is a new spec, survival is a new spec. None of them are abysmal and rely on their artifacts. Don't even try to compare them to live, they're not the same at all.

Not only that, specs which changed relatively little, like with paladins and warriors, you shouldn't even be complaining about.

[Taeldorian]

Eh, I get what youre saying and I completely understand, I have that same feeling in most cases. Its always paladin or quit for me since its the only class in this game that interests me thematically. Either way im maining paladin as usual but not many other classes interest me.

[Gilgameshh]

Homogenization has watered down the experience for me... a lot.

For whatever reason, Blizzard cannot create utility that isn't so broken it becomes "required." As a result, specs are watered down and everything is homogenized. "Bring the player, not the class" has gone way too far.

OP talked about warlock, my original class I used to love, and how it feels like a mage with different looking abilities. Regardless of whether or not they "play the same," I have to agree with this. No longer do I provide a slew of unique abilities to offer the raid, but that's what I loved about the class. Healthstones, summons, banishes, infinite mana, soulstones, tanking, imp buff... all this unique utility is gone or no longer unique. The class offers DPS and really nothing more.

Instead of creating different utilities that are GOOD but not GREAT (like Anti-Magic Zone), they've decided to just remove everything that only one spec/class offers. So then you say, "Well... what about class stacking? That surely would be a problem if they gave specs unique utility again." No, that's not true. Put a debuff on players who received one of these buffs, just like they do with heroism. No point in stacking 5 DK's if AMZ turns out to be powerful in a fight; you won't get its utility from more than one or two DKs due to the debuff. What about unique buffs like the imp buff? Tone it down so that it provides a slight boost, but nothing significant enough where it creates a pseudo requirement. I'm sure there are those that would argue that small buffs would be boring and pointless, but I disagree; they offer a slight advantage to the group that possesses the combination of all the small buffs. They offer people the ability to feel like they're contributing more than just their DPS to a fight (although I'd be more than happy just to have more unique utility and no buffs).

I do think DPS suffers from this problem more than tanks or healers. That does make sense, considering that the total of healing and tanking specs combined is far less than DPS specs. I really do think Blizzard could do a much better job making classes feel unique and interesting and I don't think making the specs feel more different from one another is going to accomplish this very well, even if it is a step in the right direction.