Remove LFR : FatBoss point of view

[Deleted]

actually its 100 % accurate and confired by blues - lfr is what pays for raiding in wow - its not our fault idiots are to stupid cba to aknowledge it and think there is some stupid consiparcy "make the game easier" instead pure economical reasons lfr exist.

lfr was brought in to justify cost of making content for 5 % of players - by some bizzare accident it became hugely popular unlike raiding in past and is the only reason mythic is still in game.

Sure, that's why Vanilla needed so little time and was so casual friendly, that casual-friendly style paid for the future expensions.

That's probably the reason why 20% of guilds usually kills the first mythic boss and around 60% of the guilds kill the first boss in heroic. (hint : it's more than 5% of the playerbase)

Probably the reason the devs said that and made flex :

Besides, Raid Finder was tuned for randomly matched groups and generally lacked sufficient challenge for even the most casual of organized raid groups.

[fwc577]

MoP LFR actually had some challenge to it as well as tier gear to complete set bonuses. It contributed to factions which also led to some raid-level vendor gear. It was toned down because raiders were complaining it was 'necessary' to do LFR.

Blizzard's solution was an absolute abomination.

Yup, and it needs to return. Imo, remove the faction from raiding. Give a Valor type drop that allows people to purchase the raid gear that was normally faction gated and allow it to drop once per week per boss (similar to legendary quest drops) and adjust the totals for difficulties. If you have 3 difficulties, LFR/Normal/Mythic make LFR get .25-.5 / boss, Normal get 1 / boss, and Mythic get 2 / boss.

Leave the sets and items as they are just at a reduced power and make it so that they can only get 1 drop per boss per week from LFR or Normal/Mythic outside of rolls.

That way, if a person needs a set piece or a trinket at a reduced power, let them go to LFR and go to that specific wing and try to get their roll. Also, make rolls only happen at the end of a wing where you can select the loot table to roll against. (This would stop people only going for their boss and leaving LFR after their bonus roll).

The biggest complaint about LFR from people in higher levels of raiding was that they were required to do it to stay competitive, so make ways for THEM to not be required to do it. Don't just fuck it over for everyone.

[Teebone]

I'm a casual player and LFR is the only way for me to experience raids for myself. I don't understand why people are so hellbent on removing it

The same reason some people think all blacks are lazy criminals and all muslims are terrorists. They experience one bad example and assume anyone not them or their guild are inferior in some way.

[fwc577]

No it strokes ur ego there is a difference. If LFR was going to be the WOD version come Legion I would not be playing Legion.

Its returning to the MOP model so I am happy.

Is that official? Because that makes me really fucking excited to play wow again.

[melodramocracy]

I like how the pro-LFR crowd trivializes the issue down to "lol nobody is forcing you to do it"

The problem with LFR is that it makes people able to burn through the content at breakneck speed. It's retardedly easy to the point where you can just semi-afk and tunnel the boss the whole time, and still win.

You see how nowadays, people cry about there being "no content QQQ no content nothing to do blizzard sucks QQQQ" ? Well LFR is a contributing factor in that. Players don't feel compelled to improve because they can just see all of the content with the afk-ezmode difficulty.

As it is in WoD right now, you can hit 100 and in just a couple days of dungeon spam and Tanaan, be geared enough to clear all 3 of WoD's raids on LFR.

So in just 1 week, you've cleared all of the raid content in the expansion, because of LFR. That can't be good for keeping people subscribed.

No one is forcing anyone else to do it. More serious raiders are unlikely to bother with it, seeing how much later LFR wings open than other modes typically.

And again... LFR shouldn't *need* to exist, but does anyhow, precisely because players feel largely forced out of other raid modes.

I mean, if you want to discuss the negatives of player entitlement, the whole 'just looking for a fast, clean run' mantra of a pug raider is the same basic premise as an LFR player wanting to just participate and collect.

Show a playerbase that largely has no issue with recruiting / teaching players, and you'll see LFR participation go away on its own.

[Captain Kennedy]

People are getting waaaaay off topic. LFR made sense and had a place when it was first introduced in Cataclysm. It was a way for more casual players to see their high end content. It was never good, but it worked in the raiding structure at the time and filled a purpose.

In the current climate, the reasons LFR were created in the first place, are now for filled by the newer Raiding structure.
- An easier difficulty (What we now call normal).
- Flexible and scaling raid size groups from 10-30 players, which makes it easier for people to jump in and out very easily.
- The new group finder tool which allows players to post up and search for groups running various bosses and difficulty levels across multiple servers.

I know a good number of players that used to only do LFR, but now they raid Normal and some early Heroic bosses and they get a lot of enjoyment out of it. They've abandoned LFR for the most part, with the only exception being when they need to grind tomes for their legendary quest. That's literally it. Blizzard can really pat themselves on the back for their new system as far as getting more casual players involved in raiding. But now that we have this, LFR doesn't really have a place in the raiding structure. It offers a poor quality experience, and the player base who want that casual raiding fix can now experience it through a more satisfying experience.

Given there's no legendary quest in Legion, I think they'll put less emphasis on LFR and see how it does. Blizzard will be very careful before making such a move. But I honestly think - unless Legion has a system that encourages grinding LFR - they may be on the path to slowly phasing it out.

At the end of the day Blizzard wants WoW to be a good quality experience. And LFR just blatantly isn't, with the exception of a small percent who think otherwise. It brings the overall quality of the raiding experience down. Raiding should always be in some form challenging, which LFR isn't.

[xuros]

Fatboss posted a video about LFR.



I strongly agree with them, yesterday I killed Archimonde with my 670 mage and it didn't feel like killing the last boss of the expansion.

LFR isn't mandatory anymore because Normal mode does everything LFR is supposed to do in a better way.

Grats on getting carried? Now to get serious, its fucking lfr, its not supposed to give you a sense of accomplishment if you do any other raiding at all. Its jsut so the super casual base can say they have seen the fight. Thats about it.

I love it for alts to get their legendary quests done.

[Socialhealer]

Yes, and it's been true for years. If LFR gets removed, raiding goes with it.

keep believing that dream, raiding isn't going anywhere, might as well say, if they remove warriors they're going to remove all 12 classes from the game.

[Jtbrig7390]

I'm gonna say this again. LFR should have been normal difficulty. Optional difficulty for greater rewards reserved for those that wish to persue it, IE Heroic, Mythic blah blah.

Three difficulties. Done.

And finally, out-of-raid content to advance in other ways.

I agree just as long as NM is queable. Want to remove LFR fine just make NM queable.

[TheDeeGee]

If you want to progress in the game, fucking nut up and do it. Stop making excuses.

So everyone has to be a Progress Raider and no one is allowed to be Casual anymore.

I really hate Elitist Jerks.

[Cassidin]

Completely true video. LFR, which is anti-social and requires no thinking at all has no place in MMO, it offers nothing of value. And yet they backed down and gave tier sets AGAIN to LFR, wtf?

Nothing of value? It gives plenty of value to those who it is designed for. It gives nothing of value for YOU maybe, but similarly why are you even complaining about "backing down and giving tier sets" if they are nothing of value to you? Are you really so small minded that you resent someone else getting something that is WAY less powerful than you can get in Mythic? If LFR gave Mythic gear... or Heroic..... even Normal mode gear then I would see a problem but it doesn't so I REALLY don't understand why "raiders" get their panties in a twist about it.

If you really want to think about something that LFR gives YOU then think about the fact that LFR gives a LARGE percentage of the playerbase experience in one way or another of the raid zones and the bosses (even if they are easymode). Why is that "giving you something"? Simple.... if LFR was removed, then those raid zones/bosses would only be seen by a small percentage of the player base again...... a game activity that is only enjoyed by the minority?..... Less development time. Yes, LFR increases the amount of time spent by developers on raid instances - how is that anything other than a good thing for EVERYONE that visits those raid zones?

[Jtbrig7390]

Is that official? Because that makes me really fucking excited to play wow again.

At lease when it comes to Loot yes real tier returns to LFR.

LFR

Normal Mode

[Cassidin]

Lfr drops gear that is lower ilvl then 5 man and world content, so thats not accurate.

True, even when HFC first came out - there was the 695 Baleful gear which beats most of the LFR gear (certainly on ilvl and sometimes on stats). Not to mention Mythic dungeons which do not require as much organisation and most friendly groups can fight their way through those even if it does take them longer. They are still easier than heroic dungeons were in BC before they were nerfed.

[Mirishka]

The amusing thing at the end of the day is, you people are going to keep making these topics and LFR is going to remain a thing. You're going to flail and bitch and scream about how it shouldn't drop gear or how LFR players should 'git gud' enough for Normal+ raids, but all your complaining and whining isn't going to change anything. Its here to stay, whether you like it or not.

I'm a Heroic HFC raider, I run in the morning with a bunch of sexy australians on an oceanic server. LFR drops *nothing* I need, on any character. And yet, never once have I called for it to be removed... and do you know why? Because I don't sit around pouting and red-in-the-face over aspects of the game that don't affect me. I couldn't care less about LFR, it's existence doesn't detract from my WoW experience in the slightest, nor did it even when it dropped tier gear in Cata/Mists. So more power to it, and to people who run it.

And that's what separates me from some of you. I realize WoW is not *my* game, it is not World of BeTheWayIPersonallyWantCraft. I realize that raiding isn't some exclusive club that only people like me should have a card for. WoW is a game, and those of you who waste so much of your time (and other peoples') screaming about the way other people get to experience that game really need to rethink your lives.

[Katchii]

I like LFR. I understand where it falls as far as player skill and actually teaching people to raid (faceroll and...it doesn't) but it gives people like me who don't play often, and are almost always behind the curve as far as ilevel is concerned a chance to get into the raids, see the bosses, lore and story and get some gear upgrades.

Legion may be different since gear upgrades will come from multiple sources making dungeons relevant long term (which I honestly prefer over LFR) but LFR is there, it's not going away. If you don't like it, don't do it.

[Jtbrig7390]

keep believing that dream, raiding isn't going anywhere, might as well say, if they remove warriors they're going to remove all 12 classes from the game.

Not a dream its a fact.

Blizzard has stated LFR justfies making raid content for Hardcore and Casual players alike. Remove LFR and you will kill raiding. Everything made in WoW is done on a budget and guess what.... Its 2016 and blizzard can't drop a mass amount of there budget on something 1% will see.

They need to keep people playing when they reach level 100 and LFR does this.

[veovis]

fatboss doesn't want LFR to exist so more people look up raid guides and they get more views.

[Kazgrel]

Recently, SE added 3.3 patch to FF14, which included a new 24 man raid, Weeping City of Mhach. The first week of the patch had rivers of tears all over reddit and the official forums about how "difficult" the raids where. Coming from the faceroll level difficulty that was Void Ark (the previous 24 man raid), it was a bit of system shock for a lot of people. Mechanics that could (and still) one shot you if you fuck them up. Fights with a multitude of mechanics, versus having maybe 3 things to know tops.

Here we are a month-ish later, and for the most part, the tears have dried up. Yoshi-P (Naoki Yoshida, game director) stated during E3 they had zero plans to nerf Weeping City, and that Void Ark should've been closer to WC in terms of difficulty. So yeah, he basically told people "git gud". People actually did. Past two weeks I've run WC, every fight has been one shot.

So what is the point bringing up FF14 shit here? These 24 man raids are essentially handled LFR style, in that you can solo queue for them, join, do the stuff, maybe get loot, and go on. With a decent reward structure, people won't mind a LFR-style raid that has a bit of bite to it. Ghostcrawler didn't hit the nail on the head 100% with his old comment about people not rising up to the occasion if a challenge is presented. Provide reasonable incentive, and people will. No one really wanted to rise to the challenge of Cata heroics for some shit blues when they had been used to getting at least one epic from the end of a heroic.

Blizz would be wise to take note of WC, in that they can indeed have LFR content that has some teeth. People will be happy to deal with it in Legion if they decide to provide tier gear, even if it is lower ilvl. The gear from WC isn't the highest ilvl, although there are some pieces that contend with savage raid pieces for the honor of BiS.

[TheDeeGee]

Not a dream its a fact.

Blizzard has stated LFR justfies making raid content for Hardcore and Casual players alike. Remove LFR and you will kill raiding. Everything made in WoW is done on a budget and guess what.... Its 2016 and blizzard can't drop a mass amount of there budget on something 1% will see.

They need to keep people playing when they reach level 100 and LFR does this.

And on that bombshell the thread can be closed

[Teebone]

fatboss doesn't want LFR to exist so more people look up raid guides and they get more views.

Not that I ever used his guides. I prefer ones that I read over inane commentary, and dungeon journal pretty much made those obsolete.