After Brexit Vote, U.K. Sees A Wave Of Hate Crimes And Racist Abuse

[PC2]

1. Uk did not leave the EU yet nothing is changed

That shouldn't change the argument though, since it is assumed they will eventually. Unless there is some type of anti-Democratic authoritarian movement.

[Dextroden]

I didn't claim they were, or we are uniquely bad.

In fact I was pointing out the fundamental challenges of saying "Oh why can't Europe be like America, we bring in so many different people!" But Europe is a land Ethnic nation states, some of whom are over 1000 years old or close to it.

Once more, this alleged paradise of tolerance and plenty was not just some empty wilderness the Gods bequeathed to a fortunate people, but was a land with millions, until with a few coughs they were wiped from the earth. The land was cleared of its people to make way for this country. Do not forget that.

And I hope you, nor the Native Americans, forget how many tribes wiped each other out to wrest control of this land that supposedly only they can live on.

[Spectral]

You know there are anti-Semitic groups in the united States to this day, right? Not to mention from prominent individuals in the past (Henry Ford was an outspoken anti-semite)

Not having a holocaust doesn't mean that they weren't show prejudice and violence.

This looks kinda like when white people complain about racism. American Jews are pretty much the most privileged ethnic/religious group we have in the United States - I don't really care if some hillbillies from West Virginia and a tycoon from a century ago aren't fans. If being born white in the West is playing life on easy, being born Jewish in the United States is playing it on easiest.

[Theodarzna]

Oh come on

Every modern nation likes to pretend like it is some sort of shining beacon of morality. some get carried away with it, like Europeans allowing Third world migrants to stomp all over its culture and way of life in the name of "being nice".

In reality nation states are a representation of people, people are self-serving to a fault. No nation on earth can say that they have a squeaky clean history free of any sort of crimes against humanity. So, please stop trying to judge us at a higher standard than everyone else.

None of them can, but today neither Ireland, Britain, Kazakhstan or anyone else is claiming to be the model for which all nations and all peoples must follow, and to be the ruler of Planet Earth.

My actual point was that Europe can't emulate America's attitude towards Immigration. This continent had its population basically obliterated, reduced to an insignificant sliver of what it once was. Bringing in people seemed only nature and thus a nation of pioneer immigrants grew. But that country, OUR country could not have arisen without a landmass made empty by disease, starvation, war and often attempts at genocide.

America can have a healthier attitude towards Immigrants, everyone here is one or the descendent of one and we all know it. Its very easy to do when there is almost nobody who can claim this as a true ancestral homeland.

In Europe its a bit more difficult, all of those States are an Ethnic Nation State, some group of peoples homeland. That is going to make for a trickier time immigrating people.

[Theinquisition]

I didn't claim they were, or we are uniquely bad.

In fact I was pointing out the fundamental challenges of saying "Oh why can't Europe be like America, we bring in so many different people!" But Europe is a land Ethnic nation states, some of whom are over 1000 years old or close to it.

Once more, this alleged paradise of tolerance and plenty was not just some empty wilderness the Gods bequeathed to a fortunate people, but was a land with millions, until with a few coughs they were wiped from the earth. The land was cleared of its people to make way for this country. Do not forget that.

no one forgets because it is taught in schools. What I wonder is....

1. why, outside of a historical footnote, I should care.
2. How it is at all applicable to today.

[PC2]

Then why did you hand-wave their difficulties away by saying "well they weren't from the western world..."

They aren't and like everyone else their on-going migration should be limited to people with higher than average skills. All nations should form policy around the basis of merit.

You know there are anti-Semitic groups in the united States to this day, right? Not to mention from prominent individuals in the past (Henry Ford was an outspoken anti-semite)

Not having a holocaust doesn't mean that they weren't show prejudice and violence.

Yes all groups have experienced prejudice and violence. There is no country where that hasn't been the case.

[oplawlz]

Oh? Care to counter it? What do you think a society driven to hate their neighbors will ultimately lead to? Because history has shown us what that leads to...

The PC movement does not remove hate, it redirects it toward the majority. Tolerance and equality prevent hate, those things are not achieved via the modern definition of PC.

[Theinquisition]

None of them can, but today neither Ireland, Britain, Kazakhstan or anyone else is claiming to be the model for which all nations and all peoples must follow, and to be the ruler of Planet Earth.

My actual point was that Europe can't emulate America's attitude towards Immigration. This continent had its population basically obliterated, reduced to an insignificant sliver of what it once was. Bringing in people seemed only nature and thus a nation of pioneer immigrants grew. But that country, OUR country could not have arisen without a landmass made empty by disease, starvation, war and often attempts at genocide.

America can have a healthier attitude towards Immigrants, everyone here is one or the descendent of one and we all know it. Its very easy to do when there is almost nobody who can claim this as a true ancestral homeland.

In Europe its a bit more difficult, all of those States are an Ethnic Nation State, some group of peoples homeland. That is going to make for a trickier time immigrating people.

how much "healthier" of an attitude towards immigrants should we take?

We should limit immigrants who are criminals, carry commutable disease, or will be a burden to the system (welfare benefits).

We should (in my opinion) limit immigration from nations that support, or harbor terrorism.

Outside of that, I'd say we have a very healthy attitude towards immigrants.

[Dextroden]

no one forgets because it is taught in schools. What I wonder is....

1. why, outside of a historical footnote, I should care.
2. How it is at all applicable to today.

1. Guilt
2. Guilt

[veehro]

That shouldn't change the argument though, since it is assumed they will eventually. Unless there is some type of anti-Democratic authoritarian movement.

What "argument"?!

You are saying that there was some magic keeping people from comiting hate crimes before the referendum and now that magic has somehow dissipated

[Spectral]

no one forgets because it is taught in schools. What I wonder is....

1. why, outside of a historical footnote, I should care.
2. How it is at all applicable to today.

None only is it taught it schools, the modern critique is that Americans should feel ashamed when they hear the names of leaders that acquired (bought, conquered, or otherwise) the land that now makes up the nation. Not content to merely teach the facts of the matter, modern leftists are wildly enthusiastic about stripping Andrew Jackson of any places of honor he holds.

[Mihalik]

So the solution is to be noisy and angry too.

Pretty much. Tried reasonable, what did that got us all to? This shitshow.

[Theodarzna]

how much "healthier" of an attitude towards immigrants should we take?

We should limit immigrants who are criminals, carry commutable disease, or will be a burden to the system (welfare benefits).

We should (in my opinion) limit immigration from nations that support, or harbor terrorism.

Outside of that, I'd say we have a very healthy attitude towards immigrants.

None? I am not advocating America change, just that America is as it is as a part of its history.

We are able to take in so many because while the song says this land is our land, in truth none of us are really from here. Hell I wasn't even born here, I was born in the UK.

Our attitude is healthy, well according to Connal it is, and I won't dispute it. We seem to be good as a country of immigrants, BUT can everyone do what we do? I don't think so. We had the advantage of an entire CONTINENTS worth of people dropping dead to clear the land. Had that not happened America as it is now would never have been.

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no one forgets because it is taught in schools. What I wonder is....

1. why, outside of a historical footnote, I should care.
2. How it is at all applicable to today.

Its applicable because anyone arguing "Gee, why can't other countries be like America?" Well when it comes to the immigration question our culture formed as a consequence of a Land that was both emptied of people by our direct/indirect action AND the fact that none of us claim to really be from here so nobody feels as aggressively threatened as say people for whom its their "ancient ancestral homeland."

It's not really a footnote, had the land not been emptied the United States would likely have never come into existence.

[PC2]

We are able to take in so many because while the song says this land is our land

But in terms of legal immigration, we don't take in massive amounts. We try to get people who are more likely to contribute. Unlike, say Germany or Sweden who don't even border a third world country yet legally let in a lot of unskilled people.

[Theinquisition]

None? I am not advocating America change, just that America is as it is as a part of its history.

We are able to take in so many because while the song says this land is our land, in truth none of us are really from here. Hell I wasn't even born here, I was born in the UK.

Our attitude is healthy, well according to Connal it is, and I won't dispute it. We seem to be good as a country of immigrants, BUT can everyone do what we do? I don't think so. We had the advantage of an entire CONTINENTS worth of people dropping dead to clear the land. Had that not happened America as it is now would never have been.

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Its applicable because anyone arguing "Gee, why can't other countries be like America?" Well when it comes to the immigration question our culture formed as a consequence of a Land that was both emptied of people by our direct/indirect action AND the fact that none of us claim to really be from here so nobody feels as aggressively threatened as say people for whom its their "ancient ancestral homeland."

It's not really a footnote, had the land not been emptied the United States would likely have never come into existence.

Okay, im glad you clarified, the only thing you said here that I disagree with whole heartily is the "none of us are truly from here" comment.

I was born here, im from here. I'm as "native" as anyone else.

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None only is it taught it schools, the modern critique is that Americans should feel ashamed when they hear the names of leaders that acquired (bought, conquered, or otherwise) the land that now makes up the nation. Not content to merely teach the facts of the matter, modern leftists are wildly enthusiastic about stripping Andrew Jackson of any places of honor he holds.

Exactly!!!

Hell, even here in college we get taught and the trail of tears with a sense that, if you're white, you should feel guilty.

I didn't do shit to anyone, I refuse to feel guilty for something I had no part in.

[Theodarzna]

But in terms of legal immigration, we don't take in massive amounts. We try to get people who are more likely to contribute. Unlike, say Germany or Sweden who don't even border a third world country yet legally let in a lot of unskilled people.

We periodically have taken in many people throughout our history, though once the West closed, and WW2 ended we started to heavily curtail legal immigration as much as possible.

[Dextroden]

None? I am not advocating America change, just that America is as it is as a part of its history.

We are able to take in so many because while the song says this land is our land, in truth none of us are really from here. Hell I wasn't even born here, I was born in the UK.

Our attitude is healthy, well according to Connal it is, and I won't dispute it. We seem to be good as a country of immigrants, BUT can everyone do what we do? I don't think so. We had the advantage of an entire CONTINENTS worth of people dropping dead to clear the land. Had that not happened America as it is now would never have been.

- - - Updated - - -



Its applicable because anyone arguing "Gee, why can't other countries be like America?" Well when it comes to the immigration question our culture formed as a consequence of a Land that was both emptied of people by our direct/indirect action AND the fact that none of us claim to really be from here so nobody feels as aggressively threatened as say people for whom its their "ancient ancestral homeland."

It's not really a footnote, had the land not been emptied the United States would likely have never come into existence.

It also helped that this continent of people were warring with each other and had no unity for the most part. Things like the Sioux Legion popped up, but those usually came late and found opposition from other tribes, too.

In addition, some tried, and ultimately did not have it work out for them, allying themseleves with the new people.

[Stacyrect]

okay, im glad you clarified, the only thing you said here that i disagree with whole heartily is the "none of us are truly from here" comment.

I was born here, im from here. I'm as "native" as anyone else.

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exactly!!!

Hell, even here in college we get taught and the trail of tears with a sense that, if you're white, you should feel guilty.

I didn't do shit to anyone, i refuse to feel guilty for something i had no part in.

you guilty tony

[Theodarzna]

Okay, im glad you clarified, the only thing you said here that I disagree with whole heartily is the "none of us are truly from here" comment.

I was born here, im from here. I'm as "native" as anyone else.

I may uniquely not feel from here as I literally am not from here. Not that America is some unfathomably alien land compared to northern Wales, but still.

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It also helped that this continent of people were warring with each other and had no unity for the most part. Things like the Sioux Legion popped up, but those usually came late and found opposition from other tribes, too.

In addition, some tried, and ultimately did not have it work out for them, allying themseleves with the new people.

Most political orders that existed were utterly destroyed after the first great pandemic. No society, not even ours, could survive a 9 in 10 death rate. The shock of such die offs is incalculable. Even the black death, which was milder brought Europe to a stand still for ages.

They had a much more BRUTAL die off than ever before recorded in human history, whilst facing an invading population that was outright hostile and aggressive, and militarily superior and technologically superior.

The sheer stresses put upon and civilisation of that magnitude would end anyone.

[PC2]

I may uniquely not feel from here as I literally am not from here. Not that America is some unfathomably alien land compared to northern Wales, but still.

You feel you are from Wales?

You should at least feel you are from the West if you are liberal, since that is where liberal values have been uniquely cultivated.