Will We See Difficult Dungeons on Launch?

[Twistedelmo]

When Cata launched regular dungeons posed challenges, the Heroics were deemed as "impossible" until blizzard tuned some of the fights for the majority.

To the Beta testers could you compare the new dungeons to the dungeons that came out in Cata?

[Deleted]

I am not in beta, but Cataclysm heroics were not impossible. They were enjoyable and the challenge they provided bound communitites together and actually encouraged interaction between players. I hope the same happens but I doubt that. If anything, I guess Mythic 6+ will be comparable to Cata heroics

[Twistedelmo]

I am not in beta, but Cataclysm heroics were not impossible. They were enjoyable and the challenge they provided bound communitites together and actually encouraged interaction between players. I hope the same happens but I doubt that. If anything, I guess Mythic 6+ will be comparable to Cata heroics

I personally wouldn't call them impossible either, i enjoyed the difficulty. I just remember there were so many tears in the first couple months of Cataclysm.

[F1reheart]

No. And due to scaling, normals are harder and longer than heroics. You're able to chain pull in heroics and kill bosses in ~30 seconds on beta, below 830 ilvl (blues). Mythic+0 will be the same difficulty according to Ion, our only hope for a challenge will be with the keystones, but I'd rather heroics have some challenge to them rather than a D3 style mechanic.

[Sodka]

Cata were not really difficult at all, just a lot of people did not know the mechanics. Really with some dungeons even in WOD people really still don't understand some of the mechanics; like in Sky Reach or Grim-rail Depot are some examples. I am interested in seeing how the more difficult Mythics will play out.

[Twistedelmo]

Cata were not really difficult at all, just a lot of people did not know the mechanics. Really with some dungeons even in WOD people really still don't understand some of the mechanics; like in Sky Reach or Grim-rail Depot are some examples. I am interested in seeing how the more difficult Mythics will play out.

I heard Mythics(+) just add more Numbers. the strats themselves are the same just you need the gear to survive, heal through the damage or beat enrage timers.

[Deja Thoris]

I heard Mythics(+) just add more Numbers. the strats themselves are the same just you need the gear to survive, heal through the damage or beat enrage timers.

They also add affixes which add different combo's to make things harder.

So as an example when a mob dies it makes others around it enrage. Others make you take ticking damage while you are in the dungeon and so on. Theres plenty of write ups on it but the bottom line is normal and heroic will be somewhat faceroll as always. Mythic+ will have challenge.

[heltvild]

I heard Mythics(+) just add more Numbers. the strats themselves are the same just you need the gear to survive, heal through the damage or beat enrage timers.

Mythic+ also adds new affixes like every 3 or 4th level.

[Twistedelmo]

They also add affixes which add different combo's to make things harder.

So as an example when a mob dies it makes others around it enrage. Others make you take ticking damage while you are in the dungeon and so on. Theres plenty of write ups on it but the bottom line is normal and heroic will be somewhat faceroll as always. Mythic+ will have challenge.

I was referring to boss mechanics.

but yes I am also looking towards the Affixes we may be seeing the use of CC and Single Targeting again! and less AoE everything to shit.

[Frolk]

Difficult for LFR raiders or ppl who do HC/mythic in premade groups?

[Twistedelmo]

Difficult for LFR raiders or ppl who do HC/mythic in premade groups?

I would say in between those.

I think dungeons should have a learning curve like most raids do.

[kingj56]

Cata raids werent impossible but i hope that diff never comes back. People were to dumb to do them correctly and as a tank being hit with DR on my dodge, parry so i just get pummled by the boss for x ammount of time was no fun. Hope they never bring shit like that back out.

[Krom2040]

I heard Mythics(+) just add more Numbers. the strats themselves are the same just you need the gear to survive, heal through the damage or beat enrage timers.

Oh, is that all?

/sarcasm

[Deleted]

Propably not

There's no need for heroics to be difficult. They will be easy and painlessly doable in LFG. You no longer have PG hurdle to filter out the baddies.

The difficult stuff will be on Mythic+ mode. Instead of set-in-stone difficulty, it will gradually go up from moderate to extremely hard (as you start to face multiple affixes and stacking-up health & damage buff)

This expansion might actually bring us dungeon content that lives past the opening two weeks. Cos before once you started raiding, heroics offered you big fat nothing. Now you'll have mythic+ unlocked together with raiding, as a form of content you can easily hoop into after you're done raiding. And the rewards will be attractive for everybody at all levels of content, these won't be arbitrary currency grinds like WOD's mythic dungeons (thus producing groups requiring 720+ ilevel for 670-680 content)

The high PUG ilevel requirements we face today in WOD mythics (impossible to get accepted without at least 710) should be gone in this system. Why? Because there is many levels of mythic+ now. You can't just LFM Mythic +3, 850 minimum anymore, when mythic+3 is tailored for 820. An 850 player will seek to do Mythic+6 instead.

[Deleted]

Propably not

There's no need for heroics to be difficult. They will be easy and painlessly doable in LFG. You no longer have PG hurdle to filter out the baddies.

The difficult stuff will be on Mythic+ mode. Instead of set-in-stone difficulty, it will gradually go up from moderate to extremely hard (as you start to face multiple affixes and stacking-up health & damage buff)

This expansion might actually bring us dungeon content that lives past the opening two weeks. Cos before once you started raiding, heroics offered you big fat nothing. Now you'll have mythic+ unlocked together with raiding, as a form of content you can easily hoop into after you're done raiding. And the rewards will be attractive for everybody at all levels of content, these won't be arbitrary currency grinds like WOD's mythic dungeons (thus producing groups requiring 720+ ilevel for 670-680 content)

The high PUG ilevel requirements we face today in WOD mythics (impossible to get accepted without at least 710) should be gone in this system. Why? Because there is many levels of mythic+ now. You can't just LFM Mythic +3, 850 minimum anymore, when mythic+3 is tailored for 820. An 850 player will seek to do Mythic+6 instead.

Actually mythic+ goes a step further, it wont let you do content below your itemlvl, as the challange will then instead skip a few steps ahead, so that the loot rewarded is relevant for you, aka.... People need to be roughly the same itemlvl while doing them.

[Djriff]

Doubtful. You can't exactly steamroll normal dungeons while leveling due to scaling, but once you hit max level as has been said above, it's a cake walk. At that point the true difficulty lies in mythic which you run into the gear wall before anything.

[PosPosPos]

I am not in beta, but Cataclysm heroics were not impossible. They were enjoyable and the challenge they provided bound communitites together and actually encouraged interaction between players. I hope the same happens but I doubt that. If anything, I guess Mythic 6+ will be comparable to Cata heroics

Is this before or after the rose tinted glasses?

[Nightcrwler]

Is this before or after the rose tinted glasses?

I distinctly remember all the bitching and moaning by the community. It definitely did not bring the community together.....well, technically it did lol

The Cata "fallout" is precisely why they will never make it that "difficult" again, especially not for LFD.

[nekobaka]

I solo queued Cata heroics in all three roles at launch with a high success rate. I found the average player good enough and never saw a dps kicked for not having CC. Players who flamed healers for their own mistakes often got kicked without the healer prompting the kick. Players who did not know the strats was explained strats as well. Most often than not players in my experience got kicked for griefing and not for being sub par. Never have I spent multiple hours in a random queue group. If I was in a bad group I left. Anyone that spent multiple hours in a failed random queue group did so of their own choice and only have themselves to blame. Those unwilling to accept the randomness of the random queue group feature should GTFO and STFU about the randomness of the random queue group feature.

That being said, random queue will likely never return to Cata difficulty due to the openness of the queue system and expectation of it being faceroll. Heroic dungeons are having the PG requirement removed along with positioning them back to where they was as part of the gear path. Early MMO-Champions Silver PG numbers placed about 86% of the population showing quite well that the vast majority of the population is far better than touted in the forums. Launch WoD LFR is an example of a system tuning to keeping the lowest common denominator from having a negative impact on the majority. A sad reality of how the random queue feature functions in WoW.

[judgementofantonidas]

I heard Mythics(+) just add more Numbers. the strats themselves are the same just you need the gear to survive, heal through the damage or beat enrage timers.

incorrect. mobs can have random new abilities.

- - - Updated - - -

I distinctly remember all the bitching and moaning by the community. It definitely did not bring the community together.....well, technically it did lol

The Cata "fallout" is precisely why they will never make it that "difficult" again, especially not for LFD.

it brought competent players together. it also brought incompetent players together but only to cry as a group.