So i tried retri on ptr and fu***** sucks

[Ashelorh]

So let me get this straight.

People are complaining Retribution..... is a better Arms warrior?

Your rotation is a damnsight better.
Your damage is debatable, but from what I have seen much better.
You do fantastic cleave and your utility is amazing.

So people are complaining of having a Colossus smash window. Big deal, you now have something to actually manage in combat.

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Pretty sure Ret has fucking tons of those.

Utility? You mean the shitty blessings? Defense? You mean the 20% health shield on a minute and a half CD? And damage isn't balanced yet, so we can't know.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Are you confusing unholy with frost? Frost is the low mobility one.

Well let's see:

Frost DK baselines:
1) Wraith walk
2) spammable undispellable ranged 70% slow
3) Death Grip

Ret baselines:
1) the "W" button
2) 30 second cd, dispellable, 10 sec duration 70% ranged slow
3) supposedly team-oriented, dispellable utility(which also surprisingly well matches Frost Nova CD) that no sane Ret will use on anyone but himself - Hand of Spellstolen... I mean- Freedom.




am I the only one to notice slight imparity here?

[Aerknard]

I don't think I argued about Divine punisher at any point tbh, I love lawbringer. Why would you need high uptime snares in PvE anyway? You may need the occasionally snare on a single mob and hand of hindrance will be awesome there (though you are more likely to stun such a mob anyway) or you will need an AoE snare and that is usually the tank's job, not yours.

You first point about pvp talent Law and order. So I thought you talk about ret pvp. Especially rate pvp.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

FFS its RET op, not fucking retri. Damn it.

and wait until you start unlocking weapon traits, the game progressively gets better as you play.

110 on beta

[Aerknard]

FFS its RET op, not fucking retri. Damn it.

and wait until you start unlocking weapon traits, the game progressively gets better as you play.

110 on beta

Not only Ret that allowed to unlock weapon traits. Which means ret get better and others get much, much better.

[Barnabas]

FFS its RET op, not fucking retri. Damn it.

and wait until you start unlocking weapon traits, the game progressively gets better as you play.

110 on beta

Well it's that and they are still working on classes anyway to get them to play how they envisioned. Then they balance everything last. It's still 2 months almost until legion goes live so people will see many changes coming before the game is live.

[Deleted]

Ashbringer doesn't really change the rotation or add much to the gameplay. Most of it is just damage buffs.

Ashes to Ashes is pretty damn important.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Ret has a mobility tier in the talent tree, however poor it might be it still is better than Wraith Walk

Is it better than Death Grip?

Having to talent for something as basic(yet pathetic) as Derpony is a kick in the gonads.

Ret has law and order, frost has Deathchill and Chill streak (Law and order is better than those two)

No it's not.
L&O is fulltime inferior to baseline Chains of Ice, because:
a) CoI are spammable
b) CoI are undispellable
And I'm not even getting into DK pvP talents such as Thundra Stalker, or the one that turns CoI into Root effect.

And we do have fist of justice.

..and?

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Are the blessings really shitty? GBoM is a nice little damage buff

they are beyond shitty.
Randomly falling off, falling off when someone decides to re-talent, uncastable in-combat.

GBoM is especially obnoxious, as it makes up to 10% of your DPS without your participation.

GBoK is a decent absorb.

seriously?

[Aerknard]

Are the blessings really shitty? GBoM is a nice little damage buff and GBoK is a decent absorb. Wisdom is crap sure.

Celestalon answer in theory crafting question:
Retribution Paladins will be balanced with the expectation that they're using 3 total Greater Blessings (not necessarily just might)
I've posted this in other thread though.

Proof if you want it
blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/409203-theorycrafting-questions/
you can ctrl+f if you want to directly find the words.

Edited: while we are at it, eye for an eye while sacrificing justicar vengeance. Mobility which can be slowed and at the same tier with DI?
If you talk about solo, warrior and dk can solo much better than ret as plate wearer.

[Shibito]

I got legion beta and ret is fine stop whining.

[Ashelorh]

Are the blessings really shitty? GBoM is a nice little damage buff and GBoK is a decent absorb. Wisdom is crap sure. Also outside soloing wouldn't you have Eye for an Eye as an additional defense CD? Plus . . . bubble (which no longer stops you from attacking so you can just bubble and keep attacking)

What I am really salty about is Arator keeping his father's charge I want that skill so much.

I don't know if the blessings are good or not. They could buff them to god tier status and they would still be shit to me. It's the most uninteresting form of utility to me, and strangely, to blizzard as well. They're removing all the buffs because they're boring, you use them and forget, and yet, for some inexplicable reason ret still has a buff as it's sole spec utility. Soloing doesn't really matter, also any decent player will either disengage from you during eye for an eye(which they can do easily because of your piss poor mobility) ignore you or stun you and attack from the back and even then, eye for an eye is in direct competition with your only instant cast heal, and well, bubble, speaking from a PVP point of view, you can use it every 5 minutes, and odds are if there's a decent priest it'll get mass dispelled. Even if it didn't, it's a you survive 8 seconds every 5 minutes ability. That would be acceptable if we had demon hunter levels of mobility, but we have the worst mobility in the game. Such low defensive capabilities don't make up for such low mobility.

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Celestalon answer in theory crafting question:
Retribution Paladins will be balanced with the expectation that they're using 3 total Greater Blessings (not necessarily just might)
I've posted this in other thread though.

I wonder how that even works in PvE? The not just might part. As a DPS, your job is to bring as much damage as possible. It's why you're there. Why would you use the shield or mana blessings unless they are incredibly powerful. And even then? How do you balance a class based on defensive and mana restoring utility?

[Aerknard]

I wonder how that even works in PvE? The not just might part. As a DPS, your job is to bring as much damage as possible. It's why you're there. Why would you use the shield or mana blessings unless they are incredibly powerful. And even then? How do you balance a class based on defensive and mana restoring utility?

Blizz dev way of thinking is beyond me. Maybe they will nerf our defense, regen, healing receive. Anything can happen, because we are talking about blizzard developer here

[snackfeat]

I will never understand how anyone can say that the current ret in this tier is the most fun ret have ever been, literally all you do half the time is spam HoW every second GCD, not to mention that exorcism and judgment are extremely boring spells that do fuck all damage due to not proccing mastery.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I wonder how that even works in PvE? The not just might part. As a DPS, your job is to bring as much damage as possible. It's why you're there. Why would you use the shield or mana blessings unless they are incredibly powerful. And even then? How do you balance a class based on defensive and mana restoring utility?

Guess if questioned about it, Celestallion would answer: "Dunno lol"

[Deleted]

For the sake of arguement, here's a video by a slightly famous Paladin Savix, regarding Ret PvP mobility.
70% uptime slow, yeah right

Starts a duel 40 yards away.

Wastes Steed against a Stun.

Flies back 30 yards from thunderstorm.

Still utterly destroys the shaman when he gets up to him.

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I will never understand how anyone can say that the current ret in this tier is the most fun ret have ever been, literally all you do half the time is spam HoW every second GCD, not to mention that exorcism and judgment are extremely boring spells that do fuck all damage due to not proccing mastery.

Because damage numbers and ease of use.

[Ashelorh]

Guess if questioned about it, Celestallion would answer: "Dunno lol"

the image I have in my head for the ret paladin design team is one guy with the job description: just do whatever bro lol

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I will never understand how anyone can say that the current ret in this tier is the most fun ret have ever been, literally all you do half the time is spam HoW every second GCD, not to mention that exorcism and judgment are extremely boring spells that do fuck all damage due to not proccing mastery.

wow dude, different people like different things, I never woulda thought

[Deleted]

wow dude, different people like different things, I never woulda thought

Difference is Current Ret is literally nothing but "mash the buttons!"

[Butosai]

Balanced around having greater blessings... Yeah that proves how stupid these people are

[Ashelorh]

Difference is Current Ret is literally nothing but "mash the buttons!"

So? What's the problem with that? Ret is obviously not a hard spec to play, nothing wrong with that, a spec doesn't have to be hard to be enjoyable. I like the current ret, which is why I play it. I honestly do not get why they would do such a massive overall of the spec. If you play the spec, it's because you like it. People that don't will have moved to another class. If you change it, the people that enjoy it get screwed out of something they enjoy. This just seem like change for the sake of change.

[bubbadubba]

Don't go off anything when testing in the PTR. Ret is one of the classes that drastically changes when you complete the artifact, if you watch some of the videos of people going into detail on the Beta, they will explain it.

That being said, you may just not like ret.

Also I don't like ret in WoD. I preferred it in BC and Wrath, more BC when it was more of a support class then a DPS class. Mana battery that could help heal and push some deeps... Wrath the rotation was a bit better and they were a solid dps that brought a lot.

WoD version of ret reminds me of Enh at the end of MoP, they were only good for the first 30 seconds to 1 minute when they had their cooldowns up. outside of cooldowns you become crap and like Enh in MoP you waited on procs to light up like a Christmas tree.