Another man shot by police in MN tonight. Video included (NSFW graphic)

[Matchles]

There is also no evidence that they didn't reach for them. The only thing that we do know is that both of them did, in fact, have guns.

Bullshit! Two videos of the man in Louisiana from two different angles. NOTHING to suggest he reached for a weapon while he was pinned to the ground. I guess we could look at the body cams... Oh wait, apparently all of the officers had their cams "fall off."

[triplesdsu]

Many shootings happen outside of criminal situations, so criminal statistics have very little relevance.

Not the ones involving the police and they are very relevant. Most involves some kind of call for service. Others stem from proactive behavior or pretext stops in areas with above average crime rates. Those become criminal acts when the subjects become combative/resistive or combative. Those that dont involve criminal situations are a small fraction.

[DarkArchon]

I think the worst out of all these shootings was the Anton one for a variety of reasons....At the very worst he should have been shot in the leg...Pumping rounds into his chest at point blank range is just a execution was no reason for lethal force, a shot in the leg would have accomplished the same thing.

[Deathquoi]

Now you're making shit up.

I said, several times, that the police do drive through white neighborhoods and shoot people, which you said they aren't doing. If you want to move the goal posts, or back peddle, at least go edit the post.

You gave no examples of a situation where police shot someone who was complying with their orders. That is what I meant when I made the initial remark that you took such issue with. I meant that police are more likely to shoot a black person without reasonable cause than a white person. Why you continue to insist that what I actually meant is that white people dont get shot by police is beyond me but feel free to continue arguing that point, I guess.

[sionus]

I was a Sheriff's Deputy for 2 years.

You're either lying, had catastrophically bad training, or you've forgotten what you were taught. In all my years as a police officer I can't think of any trainer at the academy or supplemental that would have ever approached close to the concept that lethal force is acceptable simply because someone is grabbing for any object the officer didn't like. Are there situations where it is justifiable? Absolutely, but it's not a black or white case.

[Deathquoi]

and cops aren't riding around and shooting people for the hell of it in black neighborhoods either

Really? Because it looks like they just shot two black men for no reason.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I think the worst out of all these shootings was the Anton one for a variety of reasons....At the very worst he should have been shot in the leg...Pumping rounds into his chest at point blank range is just a execution was no reason for lethal force, a shot in the leg would have accomplished the same thing.

Well, that's a matter of training...if there was a legitimate threat...Officers are always trained to shoot for center mass. The question is whether there was a legitimate concern for their safety.

[The Stormbringer]

Except that, if we take his girl's story into account, they were being pulled over for a broken tailight. Nobody was being detained.

If they were being pulled over for a tailight, asking for ID, registration, and proof of insurance is the FIRST thing cops ask you to do.

This is why black people don't carry, BTW.

And the dude died? What the actual fuck.

[Tinykong]

You gave no examples of a situation where police shot someone who was complying with their orders. That is what I meant when I made the initial remark that you took such issue with. I meant that police are more likely to shoot a black person without reasonable cause than a white person. Why you continue to insist that what I actually meant is that white people dont get shot by police is beyond me but feel free to continue arguing that point, I guess.

Because that's not what you said. You said, quite clearly, that the police aren't driving around white neighborhoods shooting people. Then, when provided with examples of the police doing exactly that, you start flailing and back peddling, changing your point. All you had to do was say you misspoke or were wrong, and make the point you were trying to make in the first place.

[triplesdsu]

Bullshit! Two videos of the man in Louisiana from two different angles. NOTHING to suggest he reached for a weapon while he was pinned to the ground. I guess we could look at the body cams... Oh wait, apparently all of the officers had their cams "fall off."

Nothing my ass. In that case you clearly see from the better video one officer grab his right hand, the other put his gun on him and the suspect receiving very clear commands that moving would get him shot. That's followed by a brief struggle, the officer who had his hand say he was going for his gun. Thats very suggestive he pulled his hand away and was going for the gun.

[DarkArchon]

Well, that's a matter of training...if there was a legitimate threat...Officers are always trained to shoot for center mass. The question is whether there was a legitimate concern for their safety.

I watched all the video footage very closely from what's available and it didn't seem justified at all, his left arm was motionless the whole time it didn't look like he was resisting to much and he was already subdued on his back....If you look at his right shoulder it's also motionless which suggests he wasn't reaching for his gun it honestly just seems like Anton was just laying there and a bit panicked then got executed....Also what justifying is there for pumping another 4 rounds into him after the first two? He was motionless after that...If they shot his hand it would have resolved the situation but i honestly don't think he was risk just going by the footage.

[triplesdsu]

I think the worst out of all these shootings was the Anton one for a variety of reasons....At the very worst he should have been shot in the leg...Pumping rounds into his chest at point blank range is just a execution was no reason for lethal force, a shot in the leg would have accomplished the same thing.

That's not even close to worse. Frankly looks good to me. No such thing as shooting in the leg. It's center of mass, always.

[Deletedaccount1]

You're either lying, had catastrophically bad training, or you've forgotten what you were taught. In all my years as a police officer I can't think of any trainer at the academy or supplemental that would have ever approached close to the concept that lethal force is acceptable simply because someone is grabbing for any object the officer didn't like. Are there situations where it is justifiable? Absolutely, but it's not a black or white case.

I never said it was black or white but an officer has to react when someone reaches for something on their person. It is often either you or them.

[Waaldo]

Bullshit! Two videos of the man in Louisiana from two different angles. NOTHING to suggest he reached for a weapon while he was pinned to the ground. I guess we could look at the body cams... Oh wait, apparently all of the officers had their cams "fall off."

In both videos you cannot see his right arm, police yell he has a gun, shoot him, then pull a gun out of his right pocket.

I think the worst out of all these shootings was the Anton one for a variety of reasons....At the very worst he should have been shot in the leg...Pumping rounds into his chest at point blank range is just a execution was no reason for lethal force, a shot in the leg would have accomplished the same thing.

If he was reaching for his gun in his right pocket, how would shooting his leg do anything? A man with a wounded leg can kill shoot you just as easily.

[Templar 331]

Really? Because it looks like they just shot two black men for no reason.

In this situation though I'm going to side against the officer.

[Deathquoi]

Because that's not what you said. You said, quite clearly, that the police aren't driving around white neighborhoods shooting people. Then, when provided with examples of the police doing exactly that, you start flailing and back peddling, changing your point. All you had to do was say you misspoke or were wrong, and make the point you were trying to make in the first place.

Ok, you win, clearly I originally meant that they drive around black neighborhoods indiscriminately shooting people and have never killed a white person ever and now I'm backpedaling after being thoroughly disproven by your amazing examples. You are the best, congratulations.

[DarkArchon]

Well i would imagine if you get shot in the leg or hand while pinned on the ground a person would start to comply a lot more and stop moving..I think the cops were safe enough and good enough position to do a non lethal shot first.

[Flutterguy]

We have no context for what started all of this. All we get is the aftermath in which the officer says, clearly rattled, "I told him not to reach for it." And then she said he was just going for his license. We don't know who is telling the truth because the video doesn't say.

Funny enough though, at the end of the video, she says they threw her phone while it clearly shows they didn't.

[Hotmail]

What would you find sufficient? You obviously don't find the fact that black people are killed by police at a higher rate than whites with respect to population moving. You don't find the multiple videos of black people being killed while complying with police compelling. What evidence would convince you there is a problem? Show me you aren't asking for something completely unreasonable.

Unreasonable claims require unreasonable evidence.

[Waaldo]

Well i would imagine if you get shot in the leg or hand while pinned on the ground a person would start to comply a lot more and stop moving..I think the cops were safe enough and good enough position to do a non lethal shot first.

A lot of the time when people get shot/stabbed they don't even know that it happened (especially if it's non lethal) until long after. Adrenalin is one hell of a drug.