2 Cops shot in Dallas at protest

[Pangean]

People forget that Malcolm X's movement was happening at the same time as MLK's, a movement which specifically advocated violence against whites. And there was a great debate in the black community about which approach was right. Ultimately, some people say Malcolm X pushed white people to accept MLK more readily, because they were willing to invest in MLK's dream to avoid Malcolm's nightmare (Malcolm X once famously said, "Dr King may have a dream, but I see a nightmare.") And Malcolm, before he was assassinated, eventually came over to MLK's point of view, because he realized he was being propped up by white racists as a reason to not support black rights and the peaceful protests of MLK. And then he was killed by his own people, for capitulating.

The black civil rights movement constantly had to press the idea that minorities had to be better than their white counterparts. If they wanted to push for equality, they had to be better than them. Read James Cone's Martin & Malcolm & America, it's a pretty good read. I think BLM has to press that issue further, and move away from anger and divisiveness in their speech, even if they aren't specifically promoting violence. MLK used to say that speech had the potential to be violent, as well, and the true believer in non-violence never spoke violently.


Fast forward to 2016:
These movements now are much more meshed, and less distinct. There are no clear leaders on both sides, but instead you have a decentralized movement with hundreds of thousands of people who can be attributed as "members" without ever doing anything, who have no standard of research or measuredness, etc. And it exists on the right as well. Social media has become an echo chamber for the ignorant to perpetuate ideas which should normally just die in the marketplace of ideas. You can use a hastag #BLM or #BlackLivesMatter and suddenly be a spokesperson for a movement even if you've never left your house in support of the movement. And some of these kids say the same shit Malcolm X said, except in an even less educated way. And BLM, a movement that is multi-cultural and trying to be peaceful, is held as violent and racist because of the traction idiots with access to a global stage get, because then the idiots on the other side can cherry pick a dozen tweets out of hundreds of thousands and paint with wide strokes. I'm sure in the 60s, there were young black youth who would have said the same thing as some of the these kids, but they didn't have the ability to broadcast that ignorant opinion to the whole world and be used as a weapon against the movement at large.

It's kind of a mess, social media is involved in it, but it's a larger problem of a general shallowness of discourse.

Great points. I add this little bit:

Speaking on Facebook Live, Gingrich was his typically direct self. But, in this age of polarized politics, whether it be of the electoral or racial variety, Gingrich’s comments were also remarkable. Here is the key quote:

“It took me a long time, and a number of people talking to me through the years to get a sense of this. If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively under-estimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk.”

White parents, Gingrich continued, don’t have to teach their teenage boys to be extra careful when dealing with police “because it’s not part of your normal experience.”

Gingrich wasn’t finished. He described moving from a largely integrated life as a son of an Army officer to Georgia in 1960.

“It was still legally segregated, which meant the local sheriff and National Guard would impose, by force, the taking away of rights of Americans. We’ve come a fair distance, now we have a black mayor of Atlanta, and have had a series of them in fact. We have John Lewis who went from marching on Selma to a Democratic whip in Congress. But we’ve stalled out on the cultural, economic, practical progress we needed.”

That lack of progress, Gingrich said, “creates the kind of alienation where it begins to become legitimate to think about, whether it’s in songs or slogans or whatever, the shooting of policemen. If we were to continue in this direction of alienation on both sides, you could really be a very coarse and dangerous society in 10 or 15 years.”

Not a big fan of Newt but today I am quite proud of him.

[zenkai]

Since the shooter belonged to the military, is OK if we blame them as well? For arming and training this man. Teaching him how to kill.

Oh what's that? The vast majority of people in the military are good people? We shouldn't blame the actions of one man on an organization that he belongs to?

He was in the reserves, that isn't very much military training or influence.

[Independent voter]

These guys look angry.

[Caolela]

No, you don't know how to read your own links. That's like complaining that Mormon's get fewer DUI's than the general public. One more chance; Find something, anything in your link that supports this statement

You do understand what percentage and ratio means, don't you? Did you get past grade-school math, or would you rather promote lies and FUD instead?

From the article (which BTW is only one among many that are easily searched):

Excessive force was by far the most common type of accusation, and 15 percent involved firearms. There were 127 excessive force incidents reported that resulted in fatalities, and the majority of these (71 percent) were shootings.

But, as was the case with Darren Wilson, most accusations of misconduct — combining all categories — did not result in criminal charges. Of the more than 8,300 misconduct accusations (involving almost 11,000 officers) in Packman’s database from April 2009 through the end of 2010, 3,238 resulted in legal action. The chart below outlines how often these charges resulted in convictions and incarcerations, compared with the rates for felony defendants in the general population (in the 75 largest U.S. counties) collected by the Bureau of Justice Statistics in 2006.

So you have 68% of the general population being convicted, with 48% being incarcerated; while for cops the percentage is 33% convicted but a mere 12% incarcerated.

In other words, cops are less than half as likely to be convicted and 4 times less likely to be incarcerated than the general population.

And that's if they even get brought up on charges to begin with, which they often don't. Most "investigations" are meant to find ways to sweep police behavior under the rug.

You can quit lying now.

[alexw]

It doesnt matter how the drug laws came to be. Unless you are claiming that blacks are predisposed genetically to need to use drugs, that argument has no value here. Unless blacks are predisposed to resist arrest or at the very least resist orders given to them, that argument has no value either. As a black man myself, I have no urge to use or sell drugs nor disobey commands given to me by police.

Err you do realize poverty and a sense of hopelessness strongly predisposes people to use drugs? And that given the history of black people in the united states many have this in spades? Its also not just a "black" thing either. As globalization and automation has destroyed the white working class, drug use has now skyrocketed among those societal groups too.

[Post]

“It took me a long time, and a number of people talking to me through the years to get a sense of this. If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively under-estimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk.”

Weird how apparently white people can't understand black people but black people can perfectly understand white people.

White parents, Gingrich continued, don’t have to teach their teenage boys to be extra careful when dealing with police “because it’s not part of your normal experience.”

I was taught to be extra careful when dealing with police and I'm white. Huh.

“It was still legally segregated, which meant the local sheriff and National Guard would impose, by force, the taking away of rights of Americans. We’ve come a fair distance, now we have a black mayor of Atlanta, and have had a series of them in fact. We have John Lewis who went from marching on Selma to a Democratic whip in Congress. But we’ve stalled out on the cultural, economic, practical progress we needed.”

Progress will never be done as long as people can feel special about thinking they're fighting for something or profit from other people feeling this way. So never. It doesn't matter how legitimate or not the cause actually is.

[CptEgo]

Noone gives a shit about these shootings in America anymore. It happens every week, and you guys refuse to make changes so it will keep happening. It's not sad or tragic, it's frankly hilarious. A gun lobby who controls the government and the laws, sounds like a dystopian movie.

[Pangean]

He was in the reserves, that isn't very much military training or influence.

Actually did a tour in Iraq.

[Independent voter]

Is that a joke? They're expressionless.

You're malfunctioning.

[Post]

Noone gives a shit about these shootings in America anymore. It happens every week, and you guys refuse to make changes so it will keep happening. It's not sad or tragic, it's frankly hilarious. A gun lobby who controls the government and the laws, sounds like a dystopian movie.

Innocent person dies and it's hilarious. Speaks volumes about your character.

[Underverse]

You do understand what percentage and ratio means, don't you? Did you get past grade-school math, or would you rather promote lies and FUD instead?

From the article (which BTW is only one among many that are easily searched):








So you have 68% of the general population being convicted, with 48% being incarcerated; while for cops the percentage is 33% convicted but a mere 12% incarcerated.

In other words, cops are less than half as likely to be convicted and over 4 times less likely to be incarcerated than the general population.

And that's if they even get brought up on charges to begin with, which they often don't. Most "investigations" are meant to find ways to sweep police behavior under the rug.

You can quit lying now.

Sure, but this is assuming that charges brought against police have the same value as charges brought against the general population. The types of charges brought against either are surely not the same. There are a lot of confounding variables here that make this kind of analysis obsolete.

[Narwal]

Noone gives a shit about these shootings in America anymore. It happens every week, and you guys refuse to make changes so it will keep happening. It's not sad or tragic, it's frankly hilarious. A gun lobby who controls the government and the laws, sounds like a dystopian movie.

That gun lobby is a citizen funded group. The funny part is you think it's not what Americans want. Americans want their guns. These things primarily happen in urban areas, people in rural areas don't give a crap about what happens in the inner city, except to SMH at them.

[alexw]

Noone gives a shit about these shootings in America anymore. It happens every week, and you guys refuse to make changes so it will keep happening. It's not sad or tragic, it's frankly hilarious. A gun lobby who controls the government and the laws, sounds like a dystopian movie.

Gun ownership rates have been steadily declining for years. Its only a matter of time.

[Underverse]

I was taught to be extra careful when dealing with police and I'm white. Huh.

Yeah this is a conversation my parents had with me too. Not sure why people are making a big deal out of it - I'm sure almost every parent in the country says something about cops to their kids. You don't treat police like you treat just anyone. They have a gun and a reason to assume that their lives are at risk by definition of being in a position of power and interacting with people who they might have to deliver consequences to.

[zenkai]

Actually did a tour in Iraq.

Probably whats wrong with him, people in the reserves are not trained properly to handle stressful combat situations.

[CptEgo]

Innocent person dies and it's hilarious. Speaks volumes about your character.

Well I can't take it seriously anymore. Why don't you make changes to stop these shootings? As long as you can buy an automatic rifle as easy as a cup of coffee, they will continue to happen. Because making loads of money is more important to the government and the NRA than peoples lives. You really think the NRA gives a shit how many people die? They don't care.

[Bullettime]

There's so many fingers to point that lead into situations like this. It isn't a "only this person to blame" thing like some are making it out to be.

1. Gang culture in minorities. I'm gonna get flamed hard for this but growing out around it, even if an anecdote, there is a pretty overwhelming gang culture among minority groups, even ones who won the genetic lottery and had good families and upbringings. It's sad seeing kids that have the keys to the kingdom to speak end up going down the path of drugs and violence because it's the cool thing to do among their groups.

2. Wage stagnation. Wage stagnation really hurts people who do start at the bottom. I won't argue for or against racial bias but the poor right now still have huge uphill battles regardless of race. It's considerably harder now to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and it leads to a lot of animosity, creation and expansion of "ghetto" environments, etc.

3. Police actions and lack of accountability. Cops are largely given slaps on the wrist for misuses of power, even if damaging to the lives of others, and get to continue on after a time or at least find themselves not in prison for the same offenses we get locked up for. This leads to more police mistrust.

4. Police training not being adequate. As someone who did have to go through the police training, the training regimen they have and gun courses are NOT sufficient and consist of a ton of fearmongering. A lot of the incidents in the last few years have largely been involving police being within 5 years of being with the force so maybe it's time to actually look at the training the officers received. Some of the scenarios you practice and they drill into your head "will happen" are totally ridiculous and they fearmonger you into almost a point of paranoia. You also don't stay in the training long enough, imo, for officers to be proficient with firearm handling to begin with. You end up with trigger happy paranoid police officers that can barely even hit a damn target without unloading a magazine at a time, which is what they get trained to do. You aim center, unload, pray they drop before you.

It's really sad that things had to escalate to this point but maybe it we'll finally start seeing some sort of changes to fix the problems on both sides of spectrum that have led us to this point.

[zenkai]

Yeah this is a conversation my parents had with me too. Not sure why people are making a big deal out of it - I'm sure almost every parent in the country says something about cops to their kids. You don't treat police like you treat just anyone. They have a gun and a reason to assume that their lives are at risk by definition of being in a position of power and interacting with people who they might have to deliver consequences to.

Police tend to not give a shit what color you are, you give them a reason to be aggressive, they will take it. Some will even bait you into an aggressive response, glad my father told me this because it actually happened to me

- - - Updated - - -

Well I can't take it seriously anymore. Why don't you make changes to stop these shootings? As long as you can buy an automatic rifle as easy as a cup of coffee, they will continue to happen. Because making loads of money is more important to the government and the NRA than peoples lives. You really think the NRA gives a shit how many people die? They don't care.

Wow you just proved you know nothing but yet you judge
Yeah I just walk down the street and buy guns all the time, no questions asked. LMAO

[Pangean]

Weird how apparently white people can't understand black people but black people can perfectly understand white people.



I was taught to be extra careful when dealing with police and I'm white. Huh.



Progress will never be done as long as people can feel special about thinking they're fighting for something or profit from other people feeling this way. So never. It doesn't matter how legitimate or not the cause actually is.

Your first comment is your imagination as Newt never said that. Not sure why you think he did.
Your second comment. I am sure if polls were done his comments would be supported. But if you wish to think your personal experience is the norm go ahead. It's not like you appear to want to hear his message anyway.
Your third comment is kinda empty posturing of your own.

[IIamaKing]

Double edged sword. It allows us to be far more aware of the world as a whole, and express our concerns. But then it also has the power to incite action and hysteria as well.

Yeh, but its out of context. We see this video and peole think of it as a whole, we are not shown all the times cops deescalate a situation, all the times cops are shot, all the times a stop goes off with no incident, which is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE higher than these isolated events.

400 officer involved deaths annually, 60% of which are of whites, thats just not a lot when taken with the whole.