Vulkan and Nvidia

[MatthewOU2015]

Hey Guys,

After the Vulkan patch for DOOM hit, it looks like Nvidia might be in some trouble as time progresses. I bought a GTX 1070 and I feel like i'm going to regret it when more games support Vulkan. How does a 480 beat a 980? If more developers implement Vulkan into games, Nvidia might be in some serious trouble. I wonder if nvidia even plans for the future.

http://imgur.com/gwFtejD

[Artorius]

Nvidia being bad at DX12/Vulkan is well known and we've been repeating it over and over this year. This isn't exactly unexpected.

[Lathais]

and DX12 is based on Vulkan and this is something we have been talking about for quite some time now, even in the GTX 9xx series vs the R9 3xx/Fury series. It's pretty well known that nVidias only answer to ASync compute is software emulation vs AMD having the hardware to handle it for quite a few generations now.

[Artorius]

Dx12 isn't based on Vulkan. They aren't sharing the same code, they were just built on the same principles. Vulkan is essentially Mantle, Dx12 is something else.

[Lathais]

Dx12 isn't based on Vulkan. They aren't sharing the same code, they were just built on the same principles. Vulkan is essentially Mantle, Dx12 is something else.

Built on the same principals, based on the same principals, based on the same thing. Either way, no big surprises here.

[Denpepe]

Async compute is not enabled yet on Nvidia cards running vulkan, id soft and Nvidia are still working on an update to fix that.

[Remilia]

Async compute is not enabled yet on Nvidia cards running vulkan, id soft and Nvidia are still working on an update to fix that.

Kind of has been said for the past year now. First Ashes, then Hitman, now this.

[Vash The Stampede]

Nothing wrong with the 1070. It's still a good card and you shouldn't panic and replace it. According to @Artorius graph, the Fury X is fastest in Vulkan. The 1070 is the 3rd fastest graphics card for Doom's Vulkan. That's nothing to be upset about. You also have to accept that in some games sometimes another graphics card is going to be faster. There is no clear winner today when it comes to graphic cards in every game.

For now, the 1070 is still the second fastest graphics card for most games, just not DX12/Vulkan games. The exception is Rise of the Tomb Raider, and I really don't know why anyone includes this game in benchmarks when even the developers said the graphics are bugged. If you're looking ahead for the future, keep an eye on DX12/Vulkan benchmarks. Some websites are still going by the idea that DX11 is more important than DX12/Vulkan. TechReport who I've given plenty of respect until recently, also believes this as they exempted DX12/Vulkan benchmarks in their RX 480 review. Be careful of how websites benchmark, cause they can favor the green or red team but selecting games and choosing to enable DX12/Vulkan in their games. And we have been warning people here for a while that DX12/Vulkan is more important that DX11 for future games.

- - - Updated - - -

Async compute is not enabled yet on Nvidia cards running vulkan, id soft and Nvidia are still working on an update to fix that.

That will never happen. This has been going on since Ashes of Singularity and nothing has been fixed. Nvidia says this to not upset people before they rage quit and buy AMD cards. There will never be a fix for Async Compute. Deal with the fact that Maxwell cards don't have full DX12/Vulkan support. The Pascal cards have meager Async Compute support.

[Lathais]

Async compute is not enabled yet on Nvidia cards running vulkan, id soft and Nvidia are still working on an update to fix that.

If it ever is enabled, it will still be shit. The hardware is just not there for it and it's not something that I think can really be software emulated well. Even if they are able to software emulate it, it will be very slow compared to AMD cards that actually have the hardware to support it.

Hopefully nVidia will have true hardware support for it in their next gen though.

[sircaw]

Watching the new digital foundry video i must say i'm pretty damn shocked at those results, that's an incredible performance gain for Amd cards.

[Deleted]

I think the card people should be looking out for in the near future is the RX470, thats not far off from the CU from the RX480 and is reported to land at $150.

But the results are stunning, what is amazing me more is the how the Fury X can overtake the 1070 as it did, what the hell will vega be with this.

[Denpepe]

If you check this article out with a 980 ti you can see that Nvidia does benefit from Vulkan

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/doom-b...ce-comparison/

Still remains to be seen if async will add to that or not and if so, how much.

[Zenny]

I don't trust that chart, the Fury score is way out of line with almost everything else, this patch basically puts the Fury X on the performance level of the 1070 and 980ti with the 1080 still leading the pack.

Doom also is utilizing a older version of Vulkan on Nvidia cards for some reason.

[Lathais]

If you check this article out with a 980 ti you can see that Nvidia does benefit from Vulkan

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/doom-b...ce-comparison/

Still remains to be seen if async will add to that or not and if so, how much.

That article also says that they noticed that it used all 6 cores of the CPU where it used mostly only a single core. So was the increase from the 1080 or from the CPU?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't trust that chart, the Fury score is way out of line with almost everything else, this patch basically puts the Fury X on the performance level of the 1070 and 980ti with the 1080 still leading the pack.

Doom also is utilizing a older version of Vulkan on Nvidia cards for some reason.

Not really surprising at all considering the Fury X is a full 3 tiers above the 1070. The Fury X is the same tier as the Titans. Typically, one expects a card of the same tier to perform as well as the card one tier above it from last ge, which is pretty much what we see here. So the 1070 should perform at least on par with a 390x(which is not on the list) since that is what is one tier above it from last gen. Above the 390x you then have the Fury, then the Fury X. So it makes sense.

[Vash The Stampede]

If it ever is enabled, it will still be shit. The hardware is just not there for it and it's not something that I think can really be software emulated well. Even if they are able to software emulate it, it will be very slow compared to AMD cards that actually have the hardware to support it.

Hopefully nVidia will have true hardware support for it in their next gen though.

You can't software emulate Async Compute. What Nvidia is doing is trying to find tweaks to try and make up for the performance difference. It's like trying to add two more cylinders to an engine with a firmware update. Can't be done. The hardware functionality just isn't there.

I don't trust that chart, the Fury score is way out of line with almost everything else, this patch basically puts the Fury X on the performance level of the 1070 and 980ti with the 1080 still leading the pack.

Doom also is utilizing a older version of Vulkan on Nvidia cards for some reason.

The Fury X has a lot of Compute Units, and would be the one card from AMD to benefit the most from Async Compute. Technically, the Fury X outperforms even the GTX 1080, in this benchmark. But I'll wait for more benchmarks. So far all I can find is RX 480 and 1070 results, but nothing extensive. Nothing that also includes the Fury X, besides this one German website. I would think Tom's Hardware is probably running a plethora of benchmarks with Doom Vulkan.

It's been said over and over here, in that you should consider the performance Delta with AMD cards and DX12/Vulkan. The 30% performance increase is pretty consistent on all websites. Nobody should be shocked that this happens. I'm shocked Nvidia allowed ID Software to release this Vulkan patch knowing how bad it'll make their graphic cards look. Especially when they tooted their horn with the 1080 on Doom with Vulkan. Makes them look really bad.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure it was Nvidia that did that in their announcement and not ID software, they certainly were present openly at the AMD event.

[Orwell7]

who cares, this world is not about technological advancement anymore
game developers won't use vulkan, because nvidia cards will be "shit", and nvidia fans will boycott the game.
money talks afterall...

[Vash The Stampede]

who cares, this world is not about technological advancement anymore
game developers won't use vulkan, because nvidia cards will be "shit", and nvidia fans will boycott the game.
money talks afterall...

I hope you're wrong.

[Denpepe]

I hope you're wrong.

He is wrong, the amount of people that have a crappy GPU is massive vs the amount that have a hight end one and as long as the game runs acceptable for them it's all good.

The new patch makes Doom run better on a lot of older hardware and that can only be a good thing.

[Lathais]

You can't software emulate Async Compute. What Nvidia is doing is trying to find tweaks to try and make up for the performance difference. It's like trying to add two more cylinders to an engine with a firmware update. Can't be done. The hardware functionality just isn't there.

How else are they going to make it work when the hardware to do it does not exist on the cards? Magically add the hardware with a driver update?