Mafia #72: Heads of State. Game Thread

[Danner]

Well everyone seems interested in lynching me. I get why scum are jumping on the train but it's a bit surprising that I'm being picked for the same actions as a number of other people so far this game (i.e. starting trains then switching votes, posting but "not contributing much", saying I lean neutral on someone who flips scum.) But I'm guessing no matter what I say my day is up since there's only a few people posting and the rest are happy to sit back and watch.

For what it's worth I'm Australian Prime Minister - Malcolm Turnbull who is apparently a bit of a jerk. I'm guessing some players are going to want to lynch me on the name alone. My only use to town besides my vote is if I am voted on without being lynched I can one time investigate anyone who was on my train at close of day. After that I become a normal VT.

Before Cruelle claimed I would not have even considered that roleclaim possible in a back-to-basics game, and would have lynched you on the spot.
Now... I have no idea. It could be worth testing. Problem is, only way to take advantage of that if you're telling the truth it is to not lynch you.
That makes this smell of a "you shouldn't lynch me because I am useful" fakeclaim. In short, it doesn't inspire faith.

--

On the bigger topic: taking stands one way or another on subjects, is a very town activity, exactly because it gives a clear indicator or someone who was on the "wrong side of a scum defence". Case in point, you preferred to lynch one unknown player over a now known scum. That could mean two things:

- You're scum trying to deflect a lynch off your scumbuddy
- You're town taking that stance using flawed reads.

It's initially impossible to really tell which it is for me. However, it's a damned good lead that I can't just ignore. The reason taking stands is a town activity is that scum should be careful to not to get into your situation in the first place if they can avoid it, because as you can see, it generates votes. Being vocal and pushing people is only a town read as long as they are correct. (meaning: a mafioso scumhunting perfectly is bound to end up in a very weak position, a mafioso scumhunting badly will end up lynched). Does that mean town shouldn't push people around? Hell no. It's vital to be done. But it means a town player sometimes pay for being wrong.

Which is you; scum or town? That's where character reads come in. My impression is that you usually hold back a bit as scum. I don't think you took many risks when we played in the west wing game. In fact, you were probably the best player on our team when it came to not standing out. So yes, you are right that this game is a change; you're not ducking completely. You're taking stands. I must hold that in your favour actually.

Is it enough for me to want to step up and vouch for you? No actually. Out of all the players, you're still the person I think is the most scummy. It's just not a 100% read. I just won't be gobsmacked if you're town. It's a possibility, just not a big one. I still want to lynch you. Your claim doesn't help too much changing that. Note however, that in taking this stance, I am sticking my neck out too. If you end up town, the others will start distrusting me a bit more tomorrow. And should tomorrow end in a real disaster with me lynched for going after you, the person pushing me will then be in the same position the day after. But that's how this game flows. Being accurate is vital. And damned hard.

--

My read on you is that you're improving your playstyle, evolving as a player. I like the change, just not the results. It doesn't tell me much of whether you are scum or town.

Now in your case, I would totally have told Shirokitsune to vote for me at the end of Day 2. Or have Dupti or myself vote for you on Day 1, even. You don't even have to give explain that reason, it's not that hard to tell someone to vote for you. Exploit your ability. Get that investigation off and settle - or not - your distrust, and get major town cred in the process. The fact that you didn't speaks heavily against you. Because I seriously think you would have thought about doing something like that had your claim actually been real.

So in short, no I think you are scum.

Let's formalize that.

vote: Cruelle
I nominate Cruelle to take out Kryllian.

[Crackleslap]

@Cruelle have you claimed what country you're the leader of?

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Nvm, found the answer.

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Rather, can you answer what your role play for your character is?

[Deleted]

Rather, can you answer what your role play for your character is?

Sure...I think. Let me ask just to make sure.

[Anakso]

Cruelle and Anakso aren't voting on Kryllian (Vr-15).

For the record I'm still 75% voting for Kryll, he is who I want Cruelle to take with him it's just I think that's the better route right now with Cruelles increased role and proving he's telling the truth being the benefits, 25% chance of no Kryll lynch being the downside but if Cruelle doesn't take Kryll with him my assumption is he can then just NK him anyway.

[Deleted]

For the record I'm still 75% voting for Kryll, he is who I want Cruelle to take with him it's just I think that's the better route right now with Cruelles increased role and proving he's telling the truth being the benefits, 25% chance of no Kryll lynch being the downside but if Cruelle doesn't take Kryll with him my assumption is he can then just NK him anyway.

That is exactly what I would do if my 75% ability failed, I would use my nk.(If that's the ability I get wifom an all that)

[dupti]

I was going to vote for you if it wasn't for #654. That post is sketchy.

[Deleted]

I was going to vote for you if it wasn't for #654. That post is sketchy.

What troubles you?

[dupti]

What troubles you?

Hm I just don't like the whole "if you were jester, I'd wouldn't mind lynching you because of X and Y"

[Deleted]

can you answer what your role play for your character is?

I am allowed but must use my own words.

I am the Prime Minister of Ireland. I "successfully" lead my country through a recession and we are well on the road to recovery...All thanks to me! One man! Yes I am that god damn special! Only I have to rely on all my friends to continually bail me out of all the bad situations that I blame others for putting me in.

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Hm I just don't like the whole "if you were jester, I'd wouldn't mind lynching you because of X and Y"

I don't see "oh your the the jester" as excuse not to vote for me, I am fishing for extra info. And as I pointed out if I was the Jester, I damn well deserve to be lynched for not fucking up town like we all know I could have.

[Crackleslap]

@Cruelle Interesting, thanks.

Incoming extreme meta gaming: I am curious to whether Celtic would be humorous enough to make his countries leader a jester. That description seems a little fitting! :P Though this could be debunked quite easily because both mine and Arialla's role play have absolootly forking northing to do with our actual roles.

[dupti]

I don't see "oh your the the jester" as excuse not to vote for me, I am fishing for extra info. And as I pointed out if I was the Jester, I damn well deserve to be lynched for not fucking up town like we all know I could have.

Perhaps not. I'm not going to lynch you today. If what you're saying is true, then you are still town so shouldn't really be a problem. The only thing lynching you would accomplish is give you 100% abilities, but meh I personally don't care too much about that. Town is in a great position at the moment. Also nothing would stop scum from killing you after we lynched you, but they might not want to do so right now (if what you said about you taknig one down with you is true that is).

I don't feel like risking this, as it is possible you are lying. Your role doesn't really match up with the whole "basic game" idea, but to be fair neither would a jester. If you're town that is great, so you having an extra life is perfectly fine with me.

[JynxieJ]

Sorry guys, I've asked to be replaced. Buying a house is a lot of work and I didn't think the offer would have been accepted so fast.
Vote Cruelle

Take Kryll,Marack or shiro with you.

[Deleted]

Perhaps not. I'm not going to lynch you today. If what you're saying is true, then you are still town so shouldn't really be a problem. The only thing lynching you would accomplish is give you 100% abilities, but meh I personally don't care too much about that. Town is in a great position at the moment. Also nothing would stop scum from killing you after we lynched you, but they might not want to do so right now (if what you said about you taknig one down with you is true that is).

I don't feel like risking this, as it is possible you are lying. Your role doesn't really match up with the whole "basic game" idea, but to be fair neither would a jester. If you're town that is great, so you having an extra life is perfectly fine with me.

I agree town is in a fantastic position right now. There probably is no better time for town than now to test my claim. The rp will confirm my role.

As for Scum killing me they could do that anytime, right now I have 75% chance to take one of them with me. If I had 100% chance to take one of them with me. I don't think they would kill me and risk losing one of their own.

"I might be lying" and to quote Xanjori " I don't think your town" .....So lynch me and find out! That is how town gets the information they need after all.

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Sorry guys, I've asked to be replaced. Buying a house is a lot of work and I didn't think the offer would have been accepted so fast.
Vote Cruelle

Take Kryll,Marack or shiro with you.

Goodluck with your house Jynx

[Kryllian]

Ok, I give up. I’m used to being read as scum mainly because the only game where I haven’t been scum was the first one and I thought I could use that to my advantage by not having scum NK target me but apparently it’s working too well this game.

My “revenge NK” claim is a fake one because I really really really didn’t want to claim my actual role on D3 seeing as how the cop has already been outed. But since you seem to want me lynched or killed via Cruelle I’m telling you now…Don’t kill your Doc!

I protected myself N1 as per usual. I’m assuming I was the target kill that night by scum. I spent a lot of time D2/N2 WIFOM-ing on if I should protect a claimed TPR (and which one) or if scum would assume that’s what I did and go for someone else. By lack on a second NK that night I’m assuming I picked right.

Tonight I will once again need to WIFOM and decide to either protect myself or another claimed TPR. But at best if I get that right that means scum should have a good Idea who was protected and who wasn’t and since I can’t use it twice in a row on the same person they’ll know who to kill the next night.

So for all those speculating on Back to Basics or Lying mods. My role is a basic role. All the roles we’ve seen flip so far are basics. I’m still putting my faith in the mods not being bastards.

Cruelle’s claim is really complex. On Google it shows up on another site a fake claim that was later used as a real role in the game. I don’t see this being the game where it would be introduced. If she is a Jester and we lynch him…he wins but really no harm no foul. We can afford a non-mafia lynch at this point. I do think that either he is scum or a bomb. The bomb may not be “basic” but it would fit with the UN/world leaders theme. A fanatic who wants to take out world leaders by blowing themselves and others up seems like a plausible RP?

If we pursue Cruelle today rather than letting the claim sit out there I recommend it be done with minimal votes. If Cruelle and only one or two others vote for him and the rest abstain then we still get modded majority and if he is a Jester he gets lynched and wins and we move on. If he is scum anyone who tries to screw up the majority is a major red flag or we lynch a scum and we move on. If he is a bomb he is limited on who he potentially takes with him. If he’s telling the truth then we have a major problem because we can now suspect the mods lied and all bets are off as to the makeup of the game.

My work access to the site is being a pain again today and I have meeting most of the morning so I don’t know how much I can be on to answer any questions before the end of day. I’ll try to sneak on my phone between meetings if I can.

TL;DR Version
:
I’m the Doc. Don’t lynch me.

Vote Cruelle with one or two disposable people but everyone else abstain.

[dethmourne]

vote: cruelle

Can't talk now, tequila hates me.

[Xanjori]

Unvote

I don't like the way you played this at all, the initial claim was a load of shit, I don't know what you were expecting. After yesterday as well, "Town don't lie" you should pay more attention to that. Trying to get clever in this game gets you dead. If we had less people trying to make flashy plays because they think they're the James Bond of the mafia world we'd probably lynch a lot less townies.

I'm not fully decided on Cruelle, but whatever.

Vote: Cruelle

I feel Marack, Shiro and Graeham should be considered suspicious. Along with Listo. And Danner, maybe Dupti too, oh definitely Anakso. Reticence for sure, dethmourne probably too and then Virothe as well.

In all seriousness I think Marack/Shrio/Graeham are actually the three causing the most doubts in my mind right now.

[Deleted]

Jynx has requested to be replaced (did so days ago but I missed it >.>) so the vote won't count and will be taken out of the player list temporarily - Ifor I fail to find a replace by dawn of the next day, I'll modkill

[dupti]

I’m assuming I was the target kill that night by scum.

Why would you assume that?

[Danner]

@Kryllian:
I note you are changing the story. This does not lead to your credibility. I do not believe your new claim any more than I did your old.

That said - if Cruelle is a vengeful goon (which still wouldn't be a back-to-basics role) then we lynch scum at the cost of a townie. It's worth the trade. But yeah, maybe the cop shouldn't vote Cruelle. Be that crackleslap or otherwise.

[Graeham]

I disagree with the idea that 'Town don't lie' because they do and quite frequently in fact given the very nature of these games. It's a gamble, sure, but there's been plenty of situations where TPR's have lived longer than usual because they told a little lie or two or made themselves just suspicious enough for scum to keep them alive but not suspicious enough to get themselves lynched.

I mean, remember how I was a Necromancer - as Town - in Reticence's game and lied about my exact role due to the realistic fear of people learning my role and then deciding to play it safe by lynching me in case I was a serial killer or scum? That's not to suggest that such plays can't back fire - because Blood Fox proved that pretty blatantly with his actions during the previous game - but I strongly disagree with the idea that 'Town should never lie'.