LGBT history lessons heading for California classrooms

[Underverse]

You are right, people made up that they were gays before. There was no gay at all before the ''dumn SJW kommunists'' took over. Plutarch did not wrote this about about a very admired Spartan king. You know, Spartans, the role model of internet warriors...

Having removed his camp into Pharnabazus's province, he not only met with great plenty of provisions, but also raised great sums of money, and marching on to the bounds of Paphlagonia, he soon drew Cotys, the king of it, into a league, to which he of his own accord inclined, out of the opinion he had of Agesilaus's honour and virtue. Spithridates, from the time of his abandoning Pharnabazus, constantly attended Agesilaus in the camp whithersoever he went. This Spithridates had a son, a very handsome boy, called Megabates, of whom Agesilaus was extremely fond, and also a very beautiful daughter that was marriageable. Her Agesilaus matched to Cotys, and taking of him a thousand horse, with two thousand light-armed foot, he returned into Phrygia, and there pillaged the country of Pharnabazus, who durst not meet him in the field, nor yet trust to his garrisons, but getting his valuables together, got out of the way and moved about up and down with a flying army, till Spithridates, joining with Herippidas the Spartan, took his camp and all his property. Herippidas being too severe an inquirer into the plunder with which the barbarian soldiers had enriched themselves, and forcing them to deliver it up with too much strictness, so disobliged Spithridates with his questioning and examining that he changed sides again, and went off with the Paphlagonians to Sardis. This was a very great vexation to Agesilaus, not only that he had lost the friendship of a gallant commander, and with him a considerable part of his army, but still more that it had been done with the disrepute of a sordid and petty covetousness, of which he always had made it a point of honour to keep both himself and his country clear. Besides these public causes, he had a private one, his excessive fondness for the son, which touched him to the quick, though he endeavoured to master it, and, especially in presence of the boy, to suppress all appearance of it; so much so that when Megabates, for that was his name, came once to receive a kiss from him, he declined it. At which, when the young boy blushed and drew back, and afterward saluted him at a more reserved distance, Agesilaus soon repenting his coldness, and changing his mind, pretended to wonder why he did not salute him with the same familiarity as formerly. His friends about him answered, "You are in the fault, who would not accept the kiss of the boy, but turned away in alarm; he would come to you again if you would have the courage to let him do so." Upon this Agesilaus paused a while, and at length answered, "You need not encourage him to it; I think I had rather be master of myself in that refusal, than see all things that are now before my eyes turned into gold." Thus he demeaned himself to Megabates when present, but he had so great a passion for him in his absence, that it may be questioned whether, if the boy had returned again, all the courage he had would have sustained him in such another refusal. ...

Homosexual behavior =/= gay.

[Serpha]

I'm guessing you're not native to England because over here we've taught snippets of history like this for over 20 years. Purpose of teaching history is to showcase human history and it's achievements whilst also learning of past mistakes

I hate English people, my parents were Irish/Scot.

[monkmastaeq]

forum censorship prevents me from commenting on this thread

teach LG but drop the T yup

[Underverse]

forum censorship prevents me from commenting on this thread

teach LG but drop the T yup

What happened to the B?

[Reeve]

I'm guessing you're not native to England because over here we've taught snippets of history like this for over 20 years. Purpose of teaching history is to showcase human history and it's achievements whilst also learning of past mistakes

It also helps to build a collective cultural lexicon we can all draw on and reference.

[nextormento]

Dunno about the States, but here I'd fear teachers would screw it up. At least if education is anything similar to my younger years, when we'd study tribes, kingdoms, empires, wars, etc spanning from the neolithic to now, but leaving recent history all compressed in the last few weeks before summer break. When I got to uni I took courses in stuff from the XIX century to today because I felt I knew nothing at all about the era.

[Underverse]

I hate English people, my parents were Irish/Scot.

...and that's why we teach history! So people can hold on to their ancestors' feuds as if they were their own!

[Deleted]

I hate English people, my parents were Irish/Scot.

So why not piss off to Scotland or Ireland? If you live in London you likely can afford it

[Theodarzna]

I'd argue history regarding social issues should be addressed before college since that's the time students encounter said issues. As I say I doubt these lessons will be intensity thorough nor overly time consuming, we're probably talking a few lessons max

Students are already apathetic towards history courses, the problem with those issues in survey classes is that most of your student body isn't going to be X, Y, Z. Like in a class I taught at the college level was a survey course and while a large percentage is Hispanic (So I could do Hispanic history in the West as that was the focus of the course). LGBT history is a lot narrower and while mentioning it as part of a Civil Rights portion. However Idk if I would personally spend too much time on going out of my way "By the way..... so and so was gay, GAY!!! GAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!" because most of the class isn't Gay and thus I'd probably loose interest fast. This is also why I try and advise grand students teaching the survey courses to just try and stick to the survey and not wander into a topical lens just because you might lose the class fast.

High School is typically a time for survey courses and IMHO survey courses need to stick on narrative and not get side tracked because time is just precious and student engagement is already in the shitter.

[Underverse]

Dunno about the States, but here I'd fear teachers would screw it up. At least if education is anything similar to my younger years, when we'd study tribes, kingdoms, empires, wars, etc spanning from the neolithic to now, but leaving recent history all compressed in the last few weeks before summer break. When I got to uni I took courses in stuff from the XIX century to today because I felt I knew nothing at all about the era.

The science behind homosexual behavior remains largely inconclusive. I would make the judgement that it's very likely that teachers will make statements that cannot be backed even by logical arguments.

We already see this all the time. People proclaiming that history person XYZ is gay, simply because he/she had a homosexual relationship in their life.

[Moralgy]

forum censorship prevents me from commenting on this thread

teach LG but drop the T yup

Why? Trans people have been a big part of lgbt history even if you don't like them.

[Serpha]

So why not piss off to Scotland or Ireland? If you live in London you likely can afford it

That's were I grew up since I was 6, now I'm 37 and with family, I would be the only one that would want to go.

[Deleted]

That's were I grew up since I was 6, now I'm 37 and with family, I would be the only one that would want to go.

So you have English children but hate the English?

[Underverse]

I don't think we really do this to begin with. I'm not saying we don't do it at all, but a lot of what is taught is kind of whatever and in some cases plain wrong. I suppose it also depends on what history you value and why. Currently the way history is taught (at least assuming it's mostly the same as when I was in school and I'm pretty sure it is) has more to do with establishing the mythology of the secular religion of Americanism than anything. Some of it is important and some of it is relatively accurate and unbiased, but then you still have stuff like saying Columbus discovered America and proved the world was round.

And I would agree that this needs to change. The legislation presented here though seems to be moving us more in the direction of mythology, though.

[sarahtasher]

Homosexual behavior =/= gay.

No, you are right, Agesilaus lounging for the kisses of a bishonen is totally not gay.

[nextormento]

Columbus discovered America and proved the world was round.

Duh, everyone knows he didn't discover it, just like Edison didn't discover the lightbulb. Columbus invented America.

[monkmastaeq]

Why? Trans people have been a big part of lgbt history even if you don't like them.

forum censorship prevents me from commenting further

get infracted again for stating an opinion backed by overwhelming statistics

[Theodarzna]

Hehe... something I am sure you will love... the High School I went to in Chicago (Maine East High School)... was the same School Hillary Clinton went to. I actually had the teacher that taught here Government/the Constitution...

If you think history should be at a bare bone in high school, I am ok with that, but we should than also remove all the other Minority groups that are brought up in class, like women's suffrage, native american involvement, etc...

I don't think it should be bare bone but I think it should stay on script as they say, and not get too off topic with topical lenses because it can really make the class difficult to follow. There is actually an art to teaching history IMHO.

If I am teaching say British History, I am sticking to the mythologies, cultures, and events of respective era's. I am unlikely to wander off into "Hey, this person might have been gay," unless I am talking about say Edward II, but I am not going to make it a whole LGBT thing just because I'm focusing on say British events.

Survey Courses are different from Topical classes. History in High School is typically a Survey Course. So you are being mostly general and not too specific, focusing in on a long stretch of time and a lot of topics, usually in a sequence. So in California you will cover the Natives, the Spanish, Mexico, Mexican American War, the Gold Rush ect ect. The problem of focusing in on topical lenses is an issue of time constraints, public school teachers don't have a ton of resources or time to work with and mandating X amount of time to talk about a topical lens really is a drain on valuable resources public school teachers just don't have.

Even college level teaching can be limited in some respects.

[Imnick]

I know that in a finite amount of time, if I had to teach students about Einstein, Hitler, Ghandi, Bolivar, Lenin or Bruce Jenner, I'd obviously want to work in Jenner's contribution to society. And you wonder why America is falling behind in education. Instead of ensuring students have the skill set and awareness of history, we need to explain why genitalia you like to play with defines who you are, and why some guy who marched is vital to western society.

These things don't have to be mutually exclusive though?
Gandhi traded intimate correspondance with another man who may well have been his lover.
Hitler persecuted homosexuals alongside the jews (and numerous other minorities), and after the war was over most of them were left to die in his camps.
Many historical events have been contributed to by people who fit somewhere within one of the LGBT labels, or notable formative events have revolved around their identities.

There are plenty of places where this topic overlaps and contributes to what is already being taught.

[Manhands]

I support LGBT in any way that makes sense, but I originally frowned at this.

My first thought was, "This is like teaching the history of everyone who has blue eyes. An interesting way to cross-section the events of history, but not valuable for elementary school history."

But then I realized that this is much different from that. For California specifically, much of the state's history was shaped by people who were gay. And they had to overcome huge obstacles in order to do so. And suddenly, I realized this is as valuable as any other historical lesson.

Took a while, but I eventually saw why it was valuable.