Talents and Zoom - blizzard, wtf?

[HumbleDuck]

People made a big deal about the zoom and there was a lot of attention called to it here--and explanations offered. It's probably going to be a problem.

But the talent change is mind blowing and I dont' think a lot of people are aware of it. They are convinced we would be happier if we weren't changing our talents all the time. Or maybe they consider it part of the "experience" to run back to town when we forgot to set ourselves up for outdoor activities. Maybe they just want us to be less aware of how lame our talent choices are (sue me, I'm a rogue, and our talents are less than riveting).

I suspect this is going to be a big deal once people really understand what's happening--I can live with the zoom change but not being able to change my talents on the fly without a raid-level consumable is extremely irritating. I found out rather late about it, it was buried in the noise.

They did add an individual consumable for that as well, just like it is in wod now.
http://legion.wowhead.com/item=14144...-mind#comments

[Ssateneth]

They changed zoom because

1: being extremely zoomed out gives you an information advantage that the UI normally wouldn't allow. (you can see that the fire behind you is moving towards you so you can move out of the way well ahead of time)
2: it breaks the depth of immersion that blizzard intends you to have. It's different when you are in a jungle and trees and bushes tower over you (you become part of the environment) and you could miss important details that you wouldn't see otherwise versus just aiming your camera way above everything like a helicopter, causing you, and everything else, to look like meaningless specks.

[grexly75]

Its unbalanced for melee, they are incapable of viewing the entire battlefield like the ranged do making is harder to react to mechanics. No one said its impossible, I'm sure you could do mythic first person if you wanted to prove a point but that doesn't mean is isn't bad for melee compared to ranged.

It is not that hard, I am playing an enhancement shammy in beta and I have been in loads of dungeons and testing part of one LFR wing, and had very few issues.. It makes you pick up your game when it comes to situational awareness..

[HumbleDuck]

They changed zoom because

1: being extremely zoomed out gives you an information advantage that the UI normally wouldn't allow. (you can see that the fire behind you is moving towards you so you can move out of the way well ahead of time)
2: it breaks the depth of immersion that blizzard intends you to have. It's different when you are in a jungle and trees and bushes tower over you (you become part of the environment) and you could miss important details that you wouldn't see otherwise versus just aiming your camera way above everything like a helicopter, causing you, and everything else, to look like meaningless specks.

1- why not let the slider in the UI go all the way instead of restricting it then? This way you allow everyone to have the advantage.
2- but then people will have to stare at hooves taking half of their screen for hours on end. ( assuming blizzard didnt give up on the idea of big ass bosses, which IMO they should not.)

[grexly75]

Even on beta you can STILL zoom out camera a lot more than the actual limit on the slider inside the options menu. Try "/console CameraDistanceMaxFactor 1.9"
It's the current maximum and it's more than enough imo. I don't get the shitstorm that's been happening about this topic.

I never can understand this either, but shitstorm is an understatement on the beta forums it is a category 5 hurricane over there.. And if you said what you posted here over there you would get down voted into oblivion.. This is how bad it is over on the beta forums if you don't bow down to the majority opinion over there..

[Deleted]

Honestly I can't even tell you. Like its really hard to see the light with these ones. Normally you can go okay I don't like that but I understand the change but I'm just a loss for words. I'm sure the restrictive talents will be changed eventually and I'm praying for some 3rd party camera hack to fix it but who knows. The camera change is especially bad. Imagine you are inside of Grimrail Depot train. Forver.

This sums up perfectly how I feel.

[grexly75]

Honestly I can't even tell you. Like its really hard to see the light with these ones. Normally you can go okay I don't like that but I understand the change but I'm just a loss for words. I'm sure the restrictive talents will be changed eventually and I'm praying for some 3rd party camera hack to fix it but who knows. The camera change is especially bad. Imagine you are inside of Grimrail Depot train. Forver.

Can tell you this if there ever was a 3rd party cam hack made expect a lot of peoples accounts being banned for using something that modifies the game files.. Reason being most of that those addons that help with cam adjustment only adjust the CVAR that is currently in game, and in Legion that CVAR is gone so those addons will not longer work..

As for being in a Grimrail like situation forever is being a bit melodramatic as it is not that bad..

[Shana Fenix]

Honestly I can't even tell you. Like its really hard to see the light with these ones. Normally you can go okay I don't like that but I understand the change but I'm just a loss for words. I'm sure the restrictive talents will be changed eventually and I'm praying for some 3rd party camera hack to fix it but who knows. The camera change is especially bad. Imagine you are inside of Grimrail Depot train. Forver.

Holy Maccaroni, talk about overreacting... Was just on beta, scollred out as far as I could... It's not even half as bad. You can still scroll out a long distance.
Just... look. If that's bad for you I have no idea what's wrong with you. And don't try the "But I can only see a big boss' feet" argument because that's not a valid point for me. (I'd post an image but I'm not allowed to, yet.)

[l33t]

As for being in a Grimrail like situation forever is being a bit melodramatic as it is not that bad..

Exactly.

I don't care about camera changes, but Blizzard's "reasoning" for that change is the new levels of moronic. But oh well, what do you expect from modern Blizzard, the company which tried to steal from players a reward for long and continuous grind, because "people were forced to use waterstrider hubba dubba hurr durr". Fucking idiots.

[Deleted]

2 aawfull changes, without any kind of rationnal explanation

1) camera change ridiculous
when anddon / change on games files make the game better, you make this baseline, you don't supress the QoL feature stupidly, for a BIG MINORITY of player who can't use that because of their computer

2) talent change being a real pain in the ass
the only reason for this talent being to make scrib usefull again when it's a profession that blizzard killed itself by removing glyphs
and now we have a stupid system witch is a pain in the ass, totally gamebreaking, and making some specs that are totally rellying on talent to be efficient in aoe/mono useless in dungeon, or requiring for them stupids amount of farming to have enought scrib composant

[Shana Fenix]

2 aawfull changes, without any kind of rationnal explanation

1) camera change ridiculous
when anddon / change on games files make the game better, you make this baseline, you don't supress the QoL feature stupidly, for a BIG MINORITY of player who can't use that because of their computer

2) talent change being a real pain in the ass
the only reason for this talent being to make scrib usefull again when it's a profession that blizzard killed itself by removing glyphs
and now we have a stupid system witch is a pain in the ass, totally gamebreaking, and making some specs that are totally rellying on talent to be efficient in aoe/mono useless in dungeon, or requiring for them stupids amount of farming to have enought scrib composant

The camera change is good. It's still far enough. So, so, very far I tell you. The way it was before was ridiculous and offered too much vision for the people that knew about it. It doesn't even have anything to do with "good computer" or "bad computer", that's just plain being misinformed.

As for the talent change, I'm not sure if it's going to be a problem or not as I haven't tested it but I'm sure it's less of a deal than you make it out to be. And IF it turns out to be oh so gamebreaking I'm sure blizzard is reasonable enough to change it.

You guys need to chill and stop bloating things into a far bigger thing than they actually are.

[AvCloudy]

Talents will be changeable inside raid/instances with consumable reagents, just as easy and accessible as in WoD.

Legion actually makes it better. It is no longer one talent change per reagent, rather the reagent lets you change as many talents you want within the few seconds of the buff it gives you. Also, you no longer need any reagent while in a resting area, or when first entering an instance.

How expensive will it be? that depends on the market.

Impossible to say how expensive they'll be, but they're going to be more expensive than 50 silver/talent change, even if you're changing most of them. It's significantly less accessible than current, since I can't buy more from a vendor mount, can't buy them from convenient merchants, I have to buy them from AH (and let's hope there's someone selling stacks of them without a markup, because buying them one by one will be annoying) or make them myself, and the group one is expensive enough to make it a hassle to make. This is a significant quality of life downgrade.

[Masqerader]

Think you got this mixed up, the talent thing people got fairly accustomed to it once we got basically free tome of tranquil mind.

Camera change is one of the biggest fuck ups they have done the entire expansion, and if legion didnt look great otherwise I am sure this would cancel a crap ton of subs.

It amazes me how many people make this assumption, just because they don't like something.


I bet 90% of the player base didn't know and like me don't care.

[Deleted]

I don't see what's such a big deal about the talent part. If you're prepared you'll just be carrying a couple hundred of them around and nothing changes... Just like the tomes. Except they're made by inscription instead of found on a vendor. Which fyi was the original thought anyway, the tomes / dust as an inscription formula was scraped and they simply added them to the inscription vendor at first and with MoP general goods vendors began selling them.

If you don't want to pay for them just get an inscription alt and you're fine...

[Nayami]

Come on guys, it could have been worse. Imagine if we were forced to play WoW in first person.

Not too happy with the talent swapping changes though. My main class (DK) finally got a revamp to all talents in Legion and now there's a lot of talents you can swap for different situations (where as on live you only change the Lvl 100 talent most of the time). I really liked that we have numerous useful talents, it makes your kit feel larger while not overwhelming the player with spells. I just hope that the new material required to change talents won't be too expensive so that I can swap talents freely as I always have.

[Licketysplit77]

Think you got this mixed up, the talent thing people got fairly accustomed to it once we got basically free tome of tranquil mind.

Camera change is one of the biggest fuck ups they have done the entire expansion, and if legion didnt look great otherwise I am sure this would cancel a crap ton of subs.

LOL. If anyone cancelled their sub for the reason of not having max cam distance in game they seriously need a word with themselves

[Mnesymne]

I know this isn't a populair opinion but imo the talent changes make sense.

In wod they could basicly remove the talent UI, Give you all skills but make it so that if you use one you can't use the other while it's cd is running.
In legion you have a build you use for most content.But if you really really want to min/max every pull you will have to pay for it via reagent or time. It makes the choises mather...

[l33t]

In wod they could basicly remove the talent UI, Give you all skills but make it so that if you use one you can't use the other while it's cd is running.
In legion you have a build you use for most content.But if you really really want to min/max every pull you will have to pay for it via reagent or time. It makes the choises mather...

No, it does not.

If you could not reroll talents or could reroll them with a huge (more than 1 month) CD and even more huge cost in gold, then the talent choices would matter.

With the system as it is now, choices still do not matter at all, since you can switch talents on the fly just like you did earlier, you just have to pay a little bit more.

More tedium does not make choices matter, in other words.

*sigh* I hope people would start thinking by themselves instead of parroting nonsense Blizzard is throwing at them.

[Fabinas]

People made a big deal about the zoom and there was a lot of attention called to it here--and explanations offered. It's probably going to be a problem.

But the talent change is mind blowing and I dont' think a lot of people are aware of it. They are convinced we would be happier if we weren't changing our talents all the time. Or maybe they consider it part of the "experience" to run back to town when we forgot to set ourselves up for outdoor activities. Maybe they just want us to be less aware of how lame our talent choices are (sue me, I'm a rogue, and our talents are less than riveting).

I suspect this is going to be a big deal once people really understand what's happening--I can live with the zoom change but not being able to change my talents on the fly without a raid-level consumable is extremely irritating. I found out rather late about it, it was buried in the noise.

BURIED IN THE NOISE? The talent change was implemented AFTER Blizzard decided to introduce a gold cost for changing SPECS in Legion Alpha. Hybrids whined so much, Blizzard decided to turn this around and give spec changing for free, but talent change at the cost of time (returning at a city) or a reagent (raid wide or personal).

- - - Updated - - -

As far as I know, the explanation provided for the camera distance change was that "everyone should be equal", so that people who know about the macros wouldn't have an advantage over those who don't.

Well. OK. That's great Blizzard. So why not raise the slider maximum to what the macros allowed for? Everyone is "equal", there are no macros, and everyone's just as happy as they were.

Someone somewhere had a brainfart and decided there would be some "reason" why the maximum distance should be lower than before. I'm convinced there's absolutely no good reason not to have just raised the slider maximum to what the macros allowed and be done with it.

Don't try to find some sense in Blizzard's explanation for the camera zoom nerf. I believe there is another reason they are hiding from us (speculation for console WoW is one of the rumors in the community, graphic engine problems with the bigger viewing distance is another), but needed an excuse. They gave us one. A horrible one.

- - - Updated - - -

When I read people complaining about the camera distance thing and not being able to see the environment as melee, I have to ask, do people not know that you can move the camera and look around?

Exactly this^ if people are going to do a "run home to mommy" and cancel their sub because of the camera change then why do they play games at all.. Since not many games allow the amount of zoom that WoW does at the moment..

Who gives a fuck about that or what other games can/could do? We didn't have to for more than 7+ years, now we are forced to, without a good reason given, or as i believe, a fake reason given. That's the community's problem, not our inability to adapt.

[pmkaboo]

talent changing item is still there, just instead of buying it from npc youll buy it from auction house, much like food and pots.

zoom change is really stupid, hopefully it gets reverted.