Affl feels dated and low damage

[Deleted]

well sure, out of combat or getting to the next trash pack we are slow. Don't really think that's makes us unviable though.

.

The problem is that groups in dungeons just aren't going to wait for the slowpoke warlock to catch up, they are going to run at top speed all the time, which means you're going to "underperform" on trash packs, and keep people waiting to pull bosses, and all this just makes warlocks less desirable. Unless we're top dps, which we aren't. In fact you're going to get the inevitable "sorry your dps is too low we have to replace"

I actually got that as affliction on a Archimonde pug because they wiped in about 30 seconds on the first pull and well yeah there were the huntards and mages at the top having blown all their cooldowns etc and me at the bottom of the barrel because of afflictions rampup times

So it makes Burning Rush mandatory, so you burn through your health to keep up and bug the healers. You can't pop the shield the mitigate that because they are mutually exclusive and you can't switch talents either

Being "viable" just makes me think of the kid who gets nothing but C's on the report card with remarks like "adequate", "tries hard", "average" or..."struggles to keep up"

Who wants to be that?

I had hopes for affliction, particularly when the devs went out of their way to hint that the complaints about affliction's godawful aoe and lack of burst making it a third wheel in certain encounters had been heard

Okay, no spec can be good at all, but that's going to hurt a lot more because the time you'll have to invest in your artefact makes spec-switching a lot less viable.

Indeed, one might almost think it's just a gimmick to act as a time sink, to get progression raiders to double-level the artefact power crap

[Deleted]

Blizzard just has to realize that slow ramp-up DPS doesn't work for the majority of the content. It's gimped in so many situations except in pure raiding scenarios where things tend to live longer. Even in raids, it's really only during progress that ramp-up DPS works.

I've said this for a long time, way before Legion... having burst DPS has to equal lower overall DPS (similarly to what they said about mobility and lower DPS for PvP) if they intend to keep these ramp-up specs.

I mean, it's good and all that ramp-up specs can perform well on progress fights, but it stops there. Low health adds, farm mode, dungeons etc... it all favors burst and always will.

Yes, I'm sure afflction will do fine on plenty of occations - I even know it does - but having slow ramp-up is never favorable compared to burst if they both end up doing the same damage. And again... so unfavorable in so much of the game's content that isn't progress raiding.

[Kirroth]

Blizzard just has to realize that slow ramp-up DPS doesn't work for the majority of the content.

Have you looked around at the other classes? Everyone will have DPS ramp in Legion. Instant burst is down across the board, cooldowns have been thinned to reduce stacking, the obvious goal is for ramp-up to be the new normal.

[Gaidax]

Yes, I must say that both Affliction and Demo start really really low and ramp up quite some long time. Destruction on the other hand is the new Arcane Mage with artifact - take Roaring Blaze - Immo > Immo > Conflag > Conflag > Lord of Flames > CB > Rift > Rift > Stuff/Rift - proceed to be top DPS no swetarino next half a minute.

[thunderbtch]

Can we like spam someone on twitter asking where the f our new animations are?

I mean, are we just okay with being forgotten? Guuuys?

It's not just Affliction either, Demonbolt still has orange fire in it, despite having green fire active..

1.5 months to go until release, at least we can expect a simple recolor ri-right?

they said that melee got new animations this time and i know some casters did but that they would do casters next time around

[Deleted]

So yeah, Afflic's Patchwerk sims will be terrible. Thankfully those fights are rare in actual play and the spec performs much better in literally every other situation. And yes, the spec does feel more like a mix of BC and Wrath Afflic than the Afflic of Mists or Warlords. I consider that a high mark in its favor.

Actually it doesn't, affliction is still a niche spec that got even "nichier". I don't really know what other situations are you talking about, it's still not optimal for dungeons, i haven't done mythics on beta yet but from my experience it's just what you'd expect, good on bosses, terrible on trash. AoE is the worst since ever, i had packs where i literally did ZERO damage with seed of corruption and it's a proper use of the word literally now because SoC doesn't have a DoT component and doesn't explode when target dies. So in a situation like beastlord, where everybody wants to burst AoE in order to top the charts, or Kormrok, where you need to burst the hands, affliction AoE is useless. So for AoE to work you need either a group of solid mobs or have your raid very well organized to allocate only as much damage as you need towards a specific threat but in that case why would you assign an affliction warlock?

And thinking of raids it only shines in council style fights, which feels kinda forced by now. It seems every raid tier has the obligatory council fight to justify the existence of DoT specs and on top of that they must also make up some mechanic to keep the bosses separated cause in the case of maidens for example melee cleave still came up on top.

Then you have the burst, on many bosses that summon adds more often than not they need to die fast, generally scenarios that requires the focus of all DPS and dies in 10 seconds, making your dots pointless (think the ghosts at the proving grounds).

So there are very few scenarios where afflictions shines and i wouldn't even mind that if it was half-decent in the other but there is a really big gap.

[Skayth]

Every warlock spec is basically not viable in mythics/dungeons. No mobility, low damage, long cast times. Even Destro feels bad in dungeons.

how do you feel... after the "hotfix" of them thinking... locks were doing to much damage =D

[JJShadoe]

I've been playing as Affliction in the beta for a bit. I haven't done any Mythic dungeons, and I haven't done any raids, but I've done a fair amount of Heroic dungeons and some world raid bosses. My spec has consistently been Grimoire of Sacrifice and Soul Conduit, the latter of which no one seems to be talking about. My DPS has been very competitive, my AoE burst is solid, and oftentimes I can't spend my soul shards fast enough, they are proccing so much. My single target damage might not be quite as good as it would with Soul Effigy, but since I'm using Drain Soul more often, I'm pretty much unkillable, which is great, and my DPS seems just fine.

[Brusalk]

On central problem with Mythic+ and Warlocks being "tanky over mobile" is that once you get to high-enough Mythic+ levels, everything avoidable will begin to one-shot even the warlocks. This makes having combat mobility a highly-sought after trait for high-level Mythic+, since you _have_ to avoid every mechanic.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the complaint is about out of combat travel time, not in combat mobility. Which it's true, Warlocks can't talent for chain Blinks or shift into Ghost Wolf or do whatever to get to that next dungeon trash pack 3 seconds faster. However Mythic+ dungeons aren't Challenge Mode dungeons where those 3 seconds are make or break. At least, I very much hope not. I hated that shit, and by all indications Mythic+ is a lot less tightly tuned.

Mythic+ isn't that tightly tuned to be able to complete the dungeon, _but_ the timer to be able to get all three chests or 2+ chests is actually quite-tightly tuned. Basically, one chest is CMode Bronze, 2 chest is Silver, and 3 chest is Gold. The price to go up to the next rank is just Bronze+, which even in cmodes was never that difficult.

Out of combat mobility was one thing that really struck me as being sorely missed.

- - - Updated - - -

how do you feel... after the "hotfix" of them thinking... locks were doing to much damage =D

Re: Artifact traits, it seems to me those are more just nerfing down those traits to be similar in power-level to other artifact traits, rather than intended nerfs to the spec as a whole. (Though the consequence certainly is that it nerfs overall damage).

I don't really understand the Incinerate trait nerfs though. Those are beyond strange.

Also Shadowburn why? Guess they truely only want it used for ember generation on dying mobs or for mobility, even though RB is miles better.

[BannedForViews]

Destruction does just fine in dungeons, the only issue is mass AoE which requires some luck and adds not moving all over the place. Everything else is OK, special props to survivability - literally indestructible in Dungeons.

I don't think you understand what literally means.

On topic though, they just brought destro nerfs which seem unwarranted seeing as how warlocks weren't breaking any meters.

[Brusalk]

Celest-"You just want Fel Flame so you can be overpowered"-alon being one of the main sources of communication also makes me loath to even try.

I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of others felt like their feedback was falling on deaf ears at best, there were people who tried far harder than me to steer the MOP revamp into a solid direction and again in WOD. WOD still went live with most people I talked to or saw posting feeling like we were getting little to no communication / changes and then massive balancing tweaks, ROF being gutted and serv-serv making it to live.

I've pretty much given up on trying to get any communication through via the official forums. I feel like I have as much impact posting here or talking to people in-person as I do posting there. Seems the only time any forum communication ever gets through and addressed is when literally the entire community backlashes against changes so hard that the thread balloons up to 20+ pages, and even then it may not get taken seriously. (LOL Brewmasters)

- - - Updated - - -

I've ran a heroic dungeon with three DHs and a monk heals. Definitely not fun being the slowest guy in the party.

Yeah, regardless of whether the damage is competitive or not, or whether Warlocks are worth bringing, it really is NOT fun being late to every engagement by 10 seconds.

[Rothg]

I've pretty much given up on trying to get any communication through via the official forums. I feel like I have as much impact posting here or talking to people in-person as I do posting there. Seems the only time any forum communication ever gets through and addressed is when literally the entire community backlashes against changes so hard that the thread balloons up to 20+ pages, and even then it may not get taken seriously. (LOL Brewmasters)

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, regardless of whether the damage is competitive or not, or whether Warlocks are worth bringing, it really is NOT fun being late to every engagement by 10 seconds.

Ret Paladins are in the same boat. I feel you.

[Gaidax]

Maybe it's more has to do with the community having tendency to cry foul over EVERYTHING, so that real actual issues get drowned in a tsunami of senseless tears over imaginary issues.

[l33t]

I look at how cool shadowpriests look, then I look at my aff lock and I despair.

It's a world of a difference.

Lol dude, I assure you, its the usual grass is greener stuff. Shadow priests are way more awful than locks, in every possible scenario, including dps, survivability, utility and visuals. Their animations are just as invisible as yours, and they don't have two more specs to play mythic dungeons.

I feel like legion is absolutely the worst time to play ranged caster. Thanks fucking Blizz I guess, for ruining the game for millions of players.

[Darkoxa]

I think that with Soul Effigy the Warlock Affli can do very damage

[Atreyis]

Lol dude, I assure you, its the usual grass is greener stuff. Shadow priests are way more awful than locks, in every possible scenario, including dps, survivability, utility and visuals. Their animations are just as invisible as yours, and they don't have two more specs to play mythic dungeons.

I feel like legion is absolutely the worst time to play ranged caster. Thanks fucking Blizz I guess, for ruining the game for millions of players.

Yeah, my goal was to find a ranged dps spec to play in legion to help fill out my guilds lack of ranged. I just got into Beta and spent all weekend trying out just about every ranged dps spec there was. I didn't mind aff and destro, they were ok, not ballzmazing like I was hoping but mechanically they were ok. Demo I didn't care for.

Shadow priest however is so hot garbage to the point of futility. The insanity mechanic may work on raid bosses (maybe) but for killing leveling mobs and bosses without gigantic health pools...yeah that mechanic is not fun AT ALL. It was super tedious and voidform dissipates very quickly. Not to mention if you pull more than one mob...good luck trying to stay alive. I was really thinking hard about going spriest too but I crossed it off my list for sure.

For any locks thinking about swapping to Spriest I highly recommend trying them out on the ptr and prepatch on real mobs, specifically the elites in tanaan to get a feel of how they play leveling/questing before investing in the swap.

For launch I think I may just go with my fallback plan of maining my MW monk. None of the ranged felt good honestly except for maybe BM hunter and its too dumbed down to keep my interest for too long.

[Turturin the Warlock]

On central problem with Mythic+ and Warlocks being "tanky over mobile" is that once you get to high-enough Mythic+ levels, everything avoidable will begin to one-shot even the warlocks. This makes having combat mobility a highly-sought after trait for high-level Mythic+, since you _have_ to avoid every mechanic.

What + level are you talking about? I've done up to level 7 at ilvl 842, I don't find that to be the case. And I'm running shadowfury, so no demon skin.

- - - Updated - - -

Mythic+ isn't that tightly tuned to be able to complete the dungeon, _but_ the timer to be able to get all three chests or 2+ chests is actually quite-tightly tuned. Basically, one chest is CMode Bronze, 2 chest is Silver, and 3 chest is Gold. The price to go up to the next rank is just Bronze+, which even in cmodes was never that difficult.

Out of combat mobility was one thing that really struck me as being sorely missed.

I think if you were top tier damage, this likely wouldn't be something you'd complain about. In that case it would be viewed as an acceptable limitation. I don't think the lack of ooc mobility in and of itself presents a real problem. And a big part of it is contrast with what demon hunters (in particular) and mages (to a lesser degree) can do.


- - - Updated - - -

Re: Artifact traits, it seems to me those are more just nerfing down those traits to be similar in power-level to other artifact traits, rather than intended nerfs to the spec as a whole. (Though the consequence certainly is that it nerfs overall damage).

I don't really understand the Incinerate trait nerfs though. Those are beyond strange.

Also Shadowburn why? Guess they truely only want it used for ember generation on dying mobs or for mobility, even though RB is miles better.

Agree, don't get these at all, especially when I see MM hunter buffs? what in the holy hell....

[Deleted]

People are wondering why they nerfed Destruction?

To make Affliction and Demonology look better, of course. It's classic Blizz, they always see a spec as overperforming, not the two others underperforming (not least because they have mechanics that make them bad at stuff)

We got that in WOD. Demonology was utterly trashed because it outshone affliction and destruction so much people automatically took it. The result? Everyone automatically took Destruction as the flavour of the month instead.

I was a diehard afflicton, and my guild didn;t mind, but feeling like a third wheel in say Darmac is never good. I accept no class/spec excels at everything, but afflictions burst and aoe are so awful it barely scrapes the "viable" barrel if it's not a single target or council style fight.

At the moment you can switch out to another spec, but with artefacts that's not going to be so easy because unless you level your offspec one it's going to be weak

A cynic might say

"well, yeah, that's the whole idea"