How to kite melee as a caster?

[Dpe]

I tried mage, elemental shaman and shadow priest on legion beta and it's impossible to kite melees. Casters were already in a bad spot in WoD because of melee uptime, dmg and tankiness all at the same time. In Legion casters lost so much mobility and utility (e.g. mages losing blazing speed and have to chose between double blink or double block) while melees got more mobilty? How does that make sense.

- Monks have 3 rolls that remove snares
- Warrior has 2 charges and multiple heroic leaps
- Rogue has endless shadowsteps
- Demon hunters mobility is ridiculous
- DKs are now ranged(WTF?)

I'm worried because the numbers are not even tuned yet and the pre-patch is coming in 3 days while these basic game breaking unbalances between casters and melees has not been fixed yet.


EDIT: Some people still don't understand so I say it again. This is not solely about numbers. It's the basic class balance between melee and casters that is supposed to be in a good state, is completely flawed that is probably not going to change in the future (same problem existed in WoD beta). I have never heard any PvP designers talk about this at all.

[snackfeat]

I tried mage, elemental shaman and shadow priest on legion beta and it's impossible to kite melees. Casters were already in a bad spot in WoD because of melee uptime, dmg and tankiness all at the same time. In Legion casters lost so much mobility and utility (e.g. mages losing blazing speed and have to chose between double blink or double block) while melees got more mobilty? How does that make sense.

- Monks have 3 rolls that remove snares
- Warrior has 2 charges and multiple heroic leaps
- Rogue has endless shadowsteps
- Demon hunters mobility is ridiculous
- DKs are now ranged(WTF?)

I'm worried because the numbers are not even tuned yet and the pre-patch is coming in 3 days while these game breaking unbalances between casters and melees has not been fixed yet.

You are an idiot if you expect anything to be balanced at lvl 100 in the pre patch.

[Alvito]

The numbers aren't going to be tuned around next weeks version of changes. They aren't even tuned for 100, they are tuned for 110 and with people having artifact weapons. Sure there is still some tuning to be done but it isn't nearly as dire as you are making it sound.

[ImprovedEvasion]

It's psychological. You have to figure out your damage windows and exploit them, not kite endlessly because you are scarred of the big man with the big axe

[Dellis0991]

I hate mages but their frost spec got some good slows, they will kite the shit out of a melee class who isn't weary of them.

[Kagthul]

You are an idiot if you expect anything to be balanced at lvl 100 in the pre patch.

you're a fool if you think it is any better at 110.

Warriors are unpeelable and 3-shotting people.

[Dellis0991]

It's psychological. You have to figure out your damage windows and exploit them, not kite endlessly because you are scarred of the big man with the big axe

^that too.

[Kagthul]

It's psychological. You have to figure out your damage windows and exploit them, not kite endlessly because you are scarred of the big man with the big axe

the big man with the big axe can kill you in 3 globals. You have to be scared of him.

[l33t]

You are an idiot if you expect anything to be balanced at lvl 100 in the pre patch.

You aren't very bright as well if you think @110 something changes.

2OP: you don't. If you wish to pvp in Legion, roll melee (not a retri though).

[Dpe]

I hate mages but their frost spec got some good slows, they will kite the shit out of a melee class who isn't weary of them.

Please tell me how frost mage can kite properly? I was watching Xaryu on twitch who is a R1 frost mage dueling randoms and doing random BGs and he couldn't kite anyone, he just stood there and took all the dmg and getting interupted. Same thing when i tried it on beta.

[ImprovedEvasion]

the big man with the big axe can kill you in 3 globals. You have to be scared of him.

You must be doing something wrong.

When the BG starts I pull up the team panel and see if they have many melees. If they do then I design my Mage/Shaman accordingly and take every anti-melee talent available while maximizing burst to keep up with their damage.

Blizzard has given you the tools to overcome your issues and then they have given you the forums. Why did you choose the latter over the former?

[Dpe]

How exactly do you build your frost mage or elemental shaman to counter warriors 5 gap closers or WW monks 3 rolls? You seem to have some secret spells no one else has.

[Soisoisoi]

I tried mage, elemental shaman and shadow priest on legion beta and it's impossible to kite melees. Casters were already in a bad spot in WoD because of melee uptime, dmg and tankiness all at the same time. In Legion casters lost so much mobility and utility (e.g. mages losing blazing speed and have to chose between double blink or double block) while melees got more mobilty? How does that make sense.

- Monks have 3 rolls that remove snares
- Warrior has 2 charges and multiple heroic leaps
- Rogue has endless shadowsteps
- Demon hunters mobility is ridiculous
- DKs are now ranged(WTF?)

I'm worried because the numbers are not even tuned yet and the pre-patch is coming in 3 days while these game breaking unbalances between casters and melees has not been fixed yet.

Arcane Mage has the highest mobility of any class currently [e.g.: vid1 vid2], so that's one idea. The other two should work too though.
Elemental Shaman... you don't. Yeah, you just don't.
Spriest generally doesn't kite as much as just healing and keeping them away with Fear and Roots Slows when possible whilst DoTs do damage.

As a side-note:
Monk are (or were until DH) the high mobility melee. That's a given.
Warrior has high mobility and hits like a truck... It really should be one or the other but... It's Blizz.
Only sub has "endless Shadowsteps", Assass only has Step and Sprint; Outlaw has Sprint and Grappling Hook if talented.
DH is the new high mobility class. Not sure where that leaves Monk though.
Unholy DKs have always been "ranged". DoT/Death Coil/Slow, let their pet do the damage whilst they kite. Frost is not ranged though.

How exactly do you build your frost mage or elemental shaman to counter warriors 5 gap closers or WW monks 3 rolls? You seem to have some secret spells no one else has.

With all that said... Duels are not something you should be basing kiting melee off of. You will have a healer and peels in arena.

[Sforza]

You can't. We melees being your overlords is just the natural order of things...
Being serious, i believe i read a dev post about how ranged classes are supposed to deal with high mobility melee like sub rogue and they said they are balancing those high mobility classes to deal considerable less damage if their uptimes are too high.

[Binko]

You are an idiot if you expect anything to be balanced at lvl 100 in the pre patch.

Nobody expects the numbers to be balanced. That's not what he is talking about.

It's perfectly reasonable to expect basic design and skill interaction to be balanced. These are set in stone at this point.

Melee now have tons of range closing ability and general mobility. Ranged now have highly limited mobility and highly limited or even nonexistant kiting ability.

This is design imbalance. Your childish insult only reveals your own personality flaws.

[Raetary]

on the ptr i could kite a few people for quite a bit, got rekt tho, warrior and rogue dmg is just too much.
i use
bone chillin (i cant without my pet and the ray is just too much casting)
cold snap (my emergency button has a bit of selfheal)
mirror image for extra burst and slows.
ice nova.
ice floes for mobility.
unstable magic.
comet storm.

all of the people who i dueled didnt have any pvp talents (nor did i)

i managed to kite them around for quite a bit but they burst and dmg output was too much and i got wreckt.

[snackfeat]

Nobody expects the numbers to be balanced. That's not what he is talking about.

It's perfectly reasonable to expect basic design and skill interaction to be balanced. These are set in stone at this point.

Melee now have tons of range closing ability and general mobility. Ranged now have highly limited mobility and highly limited or even nonexistant kiting ability.

This is design imbalance. Your childish insult only reveals your own personality flaws.

Have wow pvp ever been close to perfectly balanced though? Maybe you should play another game if you want a pvp game that's taken remotely seriously, wow pvp is literally a minigame on the level of pet battles. Enjoy wasting your time.

[ImprovedEvasion]

How exactly do you build your frost mage or elemental shaman to counter warriors 5 gap closers or WW monks 3 rolls? You seem to have some secret spells no one else has.

You need PvP talents.

[Dpe]

Have wow pvp ever been close to perfectly balanced though? Maybe you should play another game if you want a pvp game that's taken remotely seriously, wow pvp is literally a minigame on the level of pet battles. Enjoy wasting your time.

WoD 3v3 arena is balanced to to some extent, but the shit show Legion will bring in its current state will make WoD look amazing.

[l33t]

Spriest generally doesn't kite as much as just healing and keeping them away with Fear and Roots when possible whilst DoTs do damage.

Nice story, except for shadow priests have absolutely no roots in legion.

You can't. We melees being your overlords is just the natural order of things...
Being serious, i believe i read a dev post about how ranged classes are supposed to deal with high mobility melee like sub rogue and they said they are balancing those high mobility classes to deal considerable less damage if their uptimes are too high.

Yeah, with 1 month left to release I'd eat my razor mouse if Blizzard actually manage to do something with melees before 30th of Aug.

Anyways, if I were OP, I'd stick with "reroll to melee" advice. To me, it is clear as a sunny day that legion will be the pinnacle of ranged unfriendliness in pvp. And I would be very, very surprised if Blizzard devs will show actual competence at least once and won't release a completely fucked melee specs which kill anything in 2 globals (warrior), melee specs which endlessly spam 1 ranged button and deal massive amounts of damage (unholy DK), melee specs that completely ignore any movement impairing effects (monks), and overall all melee specs dealing absolutely absurd amounts of damage, both burst and sustained.