[Legion - 7.2] Not's Demonology Guide

[Count Zero]

Yes there is a damage 'cap'. It doesn't account for the full HP of the enslaved mob, it never has. It's capped at whatever HP contribution Felguard gives.

So were the reports from people who said they enslaved massive-HP elites and had massive TKCs rubbish ? (earnest question - it makes sense for there to be a cap, but I saw multiple people making reports about the big-hp mobs, and although I'd doubt you'd just pull something out of thin air this is the first I can recall hearing about a cap.)

[Woz]

So were the reports from people who said they enslaved massive-HP elites and had massive TKCs rubbish ? (earnest question - it makes sense for there to be a cap, but I saw multiple people making reports about the big-hp mobs, and although I'd doubt you'd just pull something out of thin air this is the first I can recall hearing about a cap.)

I believe those people are remembering back in beta when you could enslave mobs and have huge TKC. Worked the same way when you had an NPC following you or escorting, they counted towards your pets and could have huge TKCs.

In my experience on live servers though, no what what you enslave/have active it will act as if it has health based on your HP, not the enslaved mob (and quest NPCs no longer contribute to TKC).

[Deleted]

I got now 13000 haste(~40%) Should I still stack more haste? seems like its value is diminishing atm

[Deleted]

I got now 13000 haste(~40%) Should I still stack more haste? seems like its value is diminishing atm

That is quite a lot of haste. I would expect other stats to be better by now, but that is more of a gut feeling than any real official answer

[Deleted]

I got now 13000 haste(~40%) Should I still stack more haste? seems like its value is diminishing atm

I have 13600 haste and simmed my character, haste has dropped but just below int. my sims shows now int > haste > versa > crit > mastery

[Deleted]

I have 13600 haste and simmed my character, haste has dropped but just below int. my sims shows now int > haste > versa > crit > mastery

thanks. for me it shows aswell that value im getting from haste isnt as huge as it used to but its still something I want to have. If someone finds "softcap" or "sweetspot" for haste he/she gets my love.

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That is quite a lot of haste. I would expect other stats to be better by now, but that is more of a gut feeling than any real official answer

it feels awesome to play with this amount of haste. Topping many ST(+310k) dmg encounters at our guild runs so I feel like it cant be that bad

[Deleted]

Heya!

Starting to get over level 20 now with the artifact, does it have any big impact on which route you go to get the third golden trait?

[Joryy]

How good is gnawed thumb ring for us at all? Doesn't strike me as a big winner, but I figured I would ask.

850 Seal of Saltheril vs 855 Gnawed Thumb Ring?

edit: edited because I wasn't looking hard enough.

[Deleted]

I got to test Demonic Enslavement in Arcway yesterday.
Chaosbringer: has a Chaos Bolt that does okay damage as well as Demonic Ascension(which will only trigger if it dies, an ascended Chaosbringer is not enslaveable however). But now comes the kicker: They have Brand of the Legion. 30s CD, 20s duration, 30% Haste and 30% damage done buff you can put on any of your group members.... I made our boomkin burst 1M DPS on the Fel Lord boss, woopsie.... hitting 170% haste on Corstilax was also quite hilarious...
You can keep these guys throughout the entire instance, but be really careful when releasing and re-enslaving, with DE/Expendables/Synergy buff, they cleanly oneshot any non-tank with their Chaos Bolt. They do disappear(don't get hostile, just cleanly vanish) when you get banished in time by the last boss, however.

[Darkheart]

Has the guide been updated to account for the 18% buff to Supremacy, and how it performs practically vs Synergy on Single Target bosses? The guide currently says that Supremacy is the worst in all case.

Edit: I just ran simulations from the latest simcraft nightly build using the sample Demonology T19P profiles, and it appears that Synergy is still better than Sup by like 8K DPS. But I am not sure if the nightly build has been updated yet to have the 18% buff to Sup; it mostly likely is updated.

[Woz]

Has the guide been updated to account for the 18% buff to Supremacy, and how it performs practically vs Synergy on Single Target bosses? The guide currently says that Supremacy is the worst in all case.

Edit: I just ran simulations from the latest simcraft nightly build using the sample Demonology T19P profiles, and it appears that Synergy is still better than Sup by like 8K DPS. But I am not sure if the nightly build has been updated yet to have the 18% buff to Sup; it mostly likely is updated.

Yes the guide includes that - and SimC has been up to date with that for a while.

[discoslice]

I've read Not's guide and attempted to play Demo but still find it much harder than Destro (my usual.) I'm constantly staring at countdowns remaining for imps or dreadstalkers or haste timer and not looking at what's going on in the world.

Does anyone have any tips to streamline talents perhaps and make it easier on me? I don't enjoy this spec since I feel I'm constantly looking at Weak Aura stuff to maximize things.

edit: I'm getting a little better in solo play. running with these talents for world content:

2, 3, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2. I found shadowflame is good to generate a shard for me, and I try to use implosion for AoE.

I guess I'm looking for two things for the not-so-great demo player. A talent list for quest/world content, one for 5 man mythics/heroics and one for raids if possible. ty!

[Chookchan]

I've read Not's guide and attempted to play Demo but still find it much harder than Destro (my usual.) I'm constantly staring at countdowns remaining for imps or dreadstalkers or haste timer and not looking at what's going on in the world.

Does anyone have any tips to streamline talents perhaps and make it easier on me? I don't enjoy this spec since I feel I'm constantly looking at Weak Aura stuff to maximize things.

edit: I'm getting a little better in solo play. running with these talents for world content:

2, 3, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2. I found shadowflame is good to generate a shard for me, and I try to use implosion for AoE.

I guess I'm looking for two things for the not-so-great demo player. A talent list for quest/world content, one for 5 man mythics/heroics and one for raids if possible. ty!

IMO the best neutral talent choice would be Shadowflame / Implosion / Hand of Doom / Synergy / Demonbolt.
Shadowflame - A must have, once you get used to it you'll wonder how you did content without it.
Implosion - The best talent for everything except pure single target, blowing up 4 imps can almost 1 shot any pack of mobs with Synergy procced.
Hand of Doom - Best talent in the row, frees up a GCD on single target and frees up 40000 GCD's on cleave/AoE
Synergy - This is pretty much up +99% of the time just take it jesus christ once you get those Implosion crits you'll be known as Discoslice the bane of imps (It's also the best talent in the row for every situation, talent it and never change it).
Demonbolt - Between raids / dungeons / world content you'll be doing a good chunk of single target specific fights where Demonbolt will shine. It also keeps the rotation nice and simple. Also have you seen that freakin animation???? It feels and sounds like you're shooting the spunk of a demon god out of your hands A MUST HAVE FOR ALL WARLOCKS.

Jokes aside that talent setup has been optimal for me in all 5 man content (Been running it with great results in M+). Very flexible in both being able to AoE/Cleave/Burst down packs of trash and be competitive on bosses.
For world content if you're looking to be speedy gonzales just take Darkglare over Demonbolt and just Doom pull everything + the kitchen sink.
For raids you'd just swap Implosion for Improved Dreadstalkers on pure single target. On Ilgynoth you can swap Demonbolt for Darkglare/Soul Conduit if you're a filthy padder.

As for tunnel vision on your WeakAura's - like any spec you'll get the hang of it in time and you'll eventually be able to play the spec blindfolded.
Hope that answered your queries.

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Yes the guide includes that - and SimC has been up to date with that for a while.

Also Not while I'm here quick question - I noticed your opener in your Mythic Nythendra kill was different to that posted on the front page.
Are you having better results with that opening rotation?

[Deleted]

I have 13600 haste and simmed my character, haste has dropped but just below int. my sims shows now int > haste > versa > crit > mastery

Whats your ilvl? The point where haste starts droping value should depend on ilvl, since that determins the total count of your stats.
i was experimenting with haste gear (at around 850 ilvl) and after 37-38% haste, which is less than 13600, haste started to become my least desired stat.

Atm my ilvl is 852 with: Haste 11220 (34,5%), Crit 2513 (12,2%), Mastery 2490 (27,2 %), Vers 2364 (5,9%). With these stats and ilvl sims say haste is my top des stat, but by not much. Like int = 1, Haste = 0,64, Crit = 0,6, vers=0,58 and mastery last.

I am asking mainly cause i have the feeling i am doing smthing wrong with my sims. Yesterday i got some wierd result, where changing 300 mastery to 300 haste gave me a bit less dps.. (with the above stats).

Edit: All this is for single target with Shadowflame/impr dreadstlakers/Hand of Doom/Synergy/Demonbolt

[Deleted]

Whats your ilvl? The point where haste starts droping value should depend on ilvl, since that determins the total count of your stats.
i was experimenting with haste gear (at around 850 ilvl) and after 37-38% haste, which is less than 13600, haste started to become my least desired stat.

Atm my ilvl is 852 with: Haste 11220 (34,5%), Crit 2513 (12,2%), Mastery 2490 (27,2 %), Vers 2364 (5,9%). With these stats and ilvl sims say haste is my top des stat, but by not much. Like int = 1, Haste = 0,64, Crit = 0,6, vers=0,58 and mastery last.

I am asking mainly cause i have the feeling i am doing smthing wrong with my sims. Yesterday i got some wierd result, where changing 300 mastery to 300 haste gave me a bit less dps.. (with the above stats).

Edit: All this is for single target with Shadowflame/impr dreadstlakers/Hand of Doom/Synergy/Demonbolt

When I was doing those sims I was 852, now I'm 855 and it's still the same, breakpoint where haste drops below int is around 40%.

[Elum]

Hey man can you share your whole ui package including addons love how you have it all up set up and awsome guide!

[Deleted]

When I was doing those sims I was 852, now I'm 855 and it's still the same, breakpoint where haste drops below int is around 40%.

Are you using the default APL ? idk for me haste drops below int a lot sooner and ilvl difference isnt that much to justify this gap..If you have any ideas what i should check or try to get more accurate results, plz do say. If its not to much to ask could you pm me a ss of your options setup?

[Ibanism]

Really great guide mate, learn so many things from your guide , also I enjoy your mythic EN vids a lot. I have some questions for you however.

1.Imps from improve dreadstalkers don't get haste buff from DE, only damage buff, is this a bug or intended?

2.Only shadowflame hit can crit, its periodic cannot, is this a bug or intended.

3.From the last question, in my sim, SF pulls around 3% more dps than DC, but in sim both direct and periodic dmg of SF can crit, which put it on 7.8% or total damage, however in real game, even when execute perfectly, it never goes beyond around 6%. I tried to find your log in warcraftlog so but I couldn't so I just wanna ask, on ST fight which percentage of total damage your SF accounts for (so I know it is normally like this or I'm doing something wrong after all this time?

4.Also, TKC damage in sim is the same for both SF and DC, ingame it should be higher since you can easily TKC on 3 set of demons (DS+Imp+Imp). And also Imp firebolts count for both talent are the same, after comparing 2 talents many times on dummy(RNG only matters on DC proc for firebolts count anyway, which has very low variance), DC always have around 15% more firebolts count. So with these factors + that shadowflame crit thing previously, are DC comparable to SF in terms of DPS, or the sim just did it right all along?

Also I always fit 2 chaos bolts prepull and that makes me start at 5 shards when I'm not using SF.

Thx you and apology for my annoying questions :P.

[Woz]

Also Not while I'm here quick question - I noticed your opener in your Mythic Nythendra kill was different to that posted on the front page.
Are you having better results with that opening rotation?

Eh, hit and miss. In the moment I don't actively think about rotation/opener especially with SF since it can change depending on your haste level.

Hey man can you share your whole ui package including addons love how you have it all up set up and awsome guide!

https://notsthoughts.com/2016/07/25/...-installation/

Really great guide mate, learn so many things from your guide , also I enjoy your mythic EN vids a lot. I have some questions for you however.

1.Imps from improve dreadstalkers don't get haste buff from DE, only damage buff, is this a bug or intended?

2.Only shadowflame hit can crit, its periodic cannot, is this a bug or intended.

3.From the last question, in my sim, SF pulls around 3% more dps than DC, but in sim both direct and periodic dmg of SF can crit, which put it on 7.8% or total damage, however in real game, even when execute perfectly, it never goes beyond around 6%. I tried to find your log in warcraftlog so but I couldn't so I just wanna ask, on ST fight which percentage of total damage your SF accounts for (so I know it is normally like this or I'm doing something wrong after all this time?

4.Also, TKC damage in sim is the same for both SF and DC, ingame it should be higher since you can easily TKC on 3 set of demons (DS+Imp+Imp). And also Imp firebolts count for both talent are the same, after comparing 2 talents many times on dummy(RNG only matters on DC proc for firebolts count anyway, which has very low variance), DC always have around 15% more firebolts count. So with these factors + that shadowflame crit thing previously, are DC comparable to SF in terms of DPS, or the sim just did it right all along?

Also I always fit 2 chaos bolts prepull and that makes me start at 5 shards when I'm not using SF.

Thx you and apology for my annoying questions :P.

1. They do get DE effect.

2. Intended as far as I can tell.

3. I'll look into that, see if/how much that changes things. I've noticed the DoT portion never crit as well.

4. DC and SF were never that far off of each other, you can use either one and do fine - SF/SI offer a lot more mobility though.

- - - Updated - - -

3. I'll look into that, see if/how much that changes things. I've noticed the DoT portion never crit as well.

This got hotfixed tonight; SF DoT ticks now crit.

[Ibanism]

This got hotfixed tonight; SF DoT ticks now crit.

Yay, that's some good news!

1. They do get DE effect.

Btw, if you have spare time from M EN could you please check if your DS Imps cast the same amount of firebolts per cast per imp?
Cuz What I mean is mine do get DE dmg and health buff but they seems to not get a 56% haste buff since each of them do cast 7 firebolts (14 total) per call DS while my HoG Imps do 11-12 (35% haste) and I can notice that it is significantly slower.

Maybe it is just a bug for my character because there was a time in HFC when my Shivara did 50 more damage than my Observer (Its blade dance did like 2x dmg of the amount in sim) I noticed this on my log so I leave them 10 min on dummy for like countless time and every time my Shivara damage was pulling arond 50% more dps compare to Observer, But I got like 50 comments from ppl in bliz WoW forum bashing me for being Ignorant (Only variance in pet dps is crit and for a Shivara to do that high of dmg it would have to crit for 60+ percent, even normal ppl with 10 yrs old brain knows that this is not gonna happen in sample size of 10 min I left them on dummy, but sim said so so who cares lol), and turned out It was only my character and 2 or 3 weeks later It got fixed and Shivara now did a bit less dps than Observer.

Thx q and sorry for a long rant btw.