[Legion - 7.2] Not's Demonology Guide

[Shandalar]

Mmmm is not that bad IMO. And wich talent row if isnt the first one? I cant imagine DB+SC, it has to be the first one or second.

[alexchaos]

I would ike something along the line of PT or HoD. Either of them would be such a nice legendary. SI tho is pretty good since paired with DC it becomes even more shard regen paired with shoulders.

Tho I really don't like the playstyle without HoD and PT is quite nice paired with SI. Anyway I hope they change it.

[xuros]

I would ike something along the line of PT or HoD. Either of them would be such a nice legendary. SI tho is pretty good since paired with DC it becomes even more shard regen paired with shoulders.

Tho I really don't like the playstyle without HoD and PT is quite nice paired with SI. Anyway I hope they change it.

HoD or PT would bring it more into line with the Destro/Aff talents on the ring. SI is a bit meh compared to the other two.

[Yiazmat]

I don't understand why do you all admire this ring? It's just awful! It's a dps los with T20... According to logs there are about 1/3 - 1/2 less of SB casts(with SI/PT build) then with normal DC/PT build >>> less DS/haste procs >>> less dps. What synergy of SI and T20 do you see???

[Deleted]

I don't understand why do you all admire this ring? It's just awful! It's a dps los with T20... According to logs there are about 1/3 - 1/2 less of SB casts(with SI/PT build) then with normal DC/PT build >>> less DS/haste procs >>> less dps. What synergy of SI and T20 do you see???

Well, isn't the point that you then could have an SI & DC / PT build? So you would still keep your regular benefit from DC and now put the SI perk on top of it. That's where the benefit of the leggy comes from.

Admittedly, not as strong as some others, but definitely nothing horrible/bad

[Chemii]

I don't understand why do you all admire this ring? It's just awful! It's a dps los with T20... According to logs there are about 1/3 - 1/2 less of SB casts(with SI/PT build) then with normal DC/PT build >>> less DS/haste procs >>> less dps. What synergy of SI and T20 do you see???

Also aren't you assuming that the reset proc doesn't work with instant casts, or is it confirmed as not working?

[alexchaos]

Well, isn't the point that you then could have an SI & DC / PT build? So you would still keep your regular benefit from DC and now put the SI perk on top of it. That's where the benefit of the leggy comes from.

Admittedly, not as strong as some others, but definitely nothing horrible/bad

What I meant is that DI/PT ring would be better as it lets you have both DI + PT + SI or DC. That would mean you can have the SI/PT/SC build WITH DI which was the only downside of the build because you need to manually apply Doom and it also makes it viable for aoe fights. Or you can also go with DC/PT/SC which is probably really strong with shoulders + t20.

Imo, I'd rather not use SI right now as whenever you are in an aoe situation you can't compete at all as the talent is strictly ST dps. They would need to make demonwrath do something too if they want the talent to be good in aoe situation too. Something like: "Demonic Empowerment also causes your next Shadow Bolt to be Instant and your Demonwrath to do additionnal x% damage for every pet summoned."

Also it would be nice if Dreadstalkers could do cleave damage. Would fix most of our aoe issues in M+.

[TummyBoy]

So, I wanted to ask everyone about specific boss tips with Demonology, and confirm the rotation.

Last night I had a mythic raid, where my guild killed Krosus for the second time and then started Botanist progression. Our first Krosus kill I was in the top 30% for DPS among Demo Warlocks on WCL, which I thought was really good for a first progression kill. On the second kill I was gray. Then on the Botanist pulls I was gray again (only like 660k DPS after adjusting on WCL).

I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure out why, and I just can't. Botanist is a harder fight for Demonology I think because you severely run the risk of overcapping on Soul Shards. I've done the Doom -> wait 3 seconds -> Doom -> wait 3 seconds -> HoG thing to make sure all of the shards don't generate at the same time, but there's clearly something I'm doing very wrong if my DPS is this low.

I'd post logs, but my guild's logs are all private.

I do have these questions though:

[1] In the "meme" build, how many demons should I have up before I start spamming DE without SB? Even running SI, many Warlocks (namely top parses on WCL Korean Warlocks) spam the hell out of DE at times, 5-6 times in a row.

[2] How willing are you to delay TKC for more demons? Imagine I'm about to TKC with Grimoire, Doomguard, 10 Imps, and 2 Dreadstalkers, but right after I DE I get a Gul'Dan trinket proc for 46% haste. This means I can feasibly get out another 4 Imps pretty easily before my Grimoire and Doomguard expire. Is it a smart play to just wait the few extra seconds for a better TKC?

[3] Is it even worth switching to fast-dying adds? I always feel like I'm just crippling my DPS by even trying to kill the lashers on Botanist.

[FelPlague]

Has blizzard said anything about the sindoris spite yet?

with grimoire of supremcy the item gets "3 minute cooldown' added to its tooltip, odviously because you could just summon over and over and have the buff perma.

but without it, there is STILL a 3 minute cooldown, just it does not mention it.

looking at this, you think pairing it with willfreds would be amazing! but nope, hidden internal 3 minute cooldown, even without supremecy, meaning with willfreds it is legit usless

instead of being an amazing combo, they are the worst combo

[Radde]

Its still good for destru

Well i had the bracers just for the nerf, after than i got rid of them.
With all the haste it gets worse, you never get the 2 cds get off togther.

[G3istly]

I have a question which desperately needs answering but isn't big enough to warrant its own thread. I recently obtained Recurrent Ritual but also possess Sin'dorei Spite and Kazzak's Final Curse. My assumption is, is that I replace Sin'dorei Spite with Recurrent Ritual but in doing so, do I still keep the Demonic Calling talent? Or do I switch over to Shadowy Inspiration (since I'm fairly certain Shadowflame is still useless)? On that note, I've been curious about when to use Call Dreadstalkers: is it supposed to be only when Demonic Calling procs? Or whenever they're available and I have two Soul Shards?

[TummyBoy]

I have a question which desperately needs answering but isn't big enough to warrant its own thread. I recently obtained Recurrent Ritual but also possess Sin'dorei Spite and Kazzak's Final Curse. My assumption is, is that I replace Sin'dorei Spite with Recurrent Ritual but in doing so, do I still keep the Demonic Calling talent? Or do I switch over to Shadowy Inspiration (since I'm fairly certain Shadowflame is still useless)? On that note, I've been curious about when to use Call Dreadstalkers: is it supposed to be only when Demonic Calling procs? Or whenever they're available and I have two Soul Shards?

Most Warlocks are using SI nowadays for most fights, but DC is not bad at all. I kind of prefer SI because I feel slightly more mobile with it (can stutter step more).

[alexchaos]

I have a question which desperately needs answering but isn't big enough to warrant its own thread. I recently obtained Recurrent Ritual but also possess Sin'dorei Spite and Kazzak's Final Curse. My assumption is, is that I replace Sin'dorei Spite with Recurrent Ritual but in doing so, do I still keep the Demonic Calling talent? Or do I switch over to Shadowy Inspiration (since I'm fairly certain Shadowflame is still useless)? On that note, I've been curious about when to use Call Dreadstalkers: is it supposed to be only when Demonic Calling procs? Or whenever they're available and I have two Soul Shards?

I use DC for the extra shard regen when summoning dogs. Makes it pretty easy to do big TKC when dogs give you 2 shards instead of consuming none.

[Toastiekins]

People are using Shadowy Inspiration because of the DE spam meme build. If you rarely ever cast shadow bolt you rarely proc DC. DC is the better talent when the build is played correctly.

[Shandalar]

Have u seem the new legendary chest and the rings fix?

The Master Harvester Each Soul Shard you spend has a Demonology - 3% chance to grant you Soul Harvest for 8 sec.

Soul of the Netherlord Gain one of the following talents based on your specialization:

Demonology: Grimoire of Synergy

The chest seems pretty good with the "tons of shards" build; and the Ring gives an interestant talent now.

[alexchaos]

Have u seem the new legendary chest and the rings fix?

The Master Harvester Each Soul Shard you spend has a Demonology - 3% chance to grant you Soul Harvest for 8 sec.

Soul of the Netherlord Gain one of the following talents based on your specialization:

Demonology: Grimoire of Synergy

The chest seems pretty good with the "tons of shards" build; and the Ring gives an interestant talent now.

If they keep the ring that way it's probably gonna be BiS, an almost permanent 25% dmg buff for you and your demon is pretty OP in addition to service.

[xuros]

Have u seem the new legendary chest and the rings fix?

The Master Harvester Each Soul Shard you spend has a Demonology - 3% chance to grant you Soul Harvest for 8 sec.

Soul of the Netherlord Gain one of the following talents based on your specialization:

Demonology: Grimoire of Synergy

The chest seems pretty good with the "tons of shards" build; and the Ring gives an interestant talent now.

For demo the ring gives us a very good talent to use now. Syns boost is a lot lower than it was at launch but the uptime was crazy high when we used it. I like this change.

[Ilir]

I still use synergy, the uptime is insane. I'm loving that new ring.

the chest sounds fun.

[Woz]

If they keep the ring that way it's probably gonna be BiS, an almost permanent 25% dmg buff for you and your demon is pretty OP in addition to service.

It's more like a 12.5% dmg buff since its only got a 50%ish uptime.

[Werst]

Still a 12.5%'ish buff is about 3x better than most leggos theoretical "4% budget" but the stat boost ones hardly live up to that so I guess we've been off playbook. Synergy does open up more options in so far as demonbolt and using the TKC wakener helm for mega burst requirements. I'd give up Wilfred (secondary stat budget is similar) though I really do like not being such a 3 min monster in terms of dps swings... With T20 bonus having recurrent feels like its still going to be the other dominant leggo.

Now the gripes:
*Darkglare still feels significantly undertuned. SC is outscaling everything and dbolt gets a leg up from synergy ring but darkglare is already meh without adding a tier worth of stats to it. It should be full time at its current damage level or have a significant bump. I'd even be happy seeing a shorter CD/duration higher burst but demo feels like its only going to see much tuning if something gets overtuned. It just doesn't show up in any fights. I managed a top 10 parse on botanist using it but its really little different than SC overall and dungeons don't redeem it either while being more complex. No real upside is the issue..."demo's phantom singularity" lol.

*AoE feels like a joke and only a shard builder. I know you can't bump demonwrath itself up much without stepping on shadowbolt but really....both could go up and it would hardly be a problem. Demo really doesn't have much else its good at.

*Implosion needs a passive that imps auto suicide on death...that would give a "cleave" option for the spec since right now the BEST use of implosion is to NOT use it. That or cap it to 4x imps and up the damage per imp significantly and put a minor (10'ish sec) cooldown on imploding imps. It just feels like a half baked plan that didn't get finished nor evolved and was neutered to keep pvp issues off the radar and otherwise forgotten about.

*Dreadstalkers being pure single target feels like it holds the spec back from anything but raid tunneling. If you had a 50% (or baseline 30% talent to 50%) cleave they would be more interesting and let the spec be played by anything but a robot with awesome RNG in a dungeon. Still could stand to see them instant and the pvp talent give them a big chunk of leech (since they gutted demo mitigation/survival at least give pvp back some healing). Would be awesome qol but probably gets canned with "wishlisting" by most.

We will see. Aff's mobility (especially in T20 vs T19) is going to be a huge advantage compared to demo's rather rigid needs. Unless you use wakener or use TKC's for prio burst the spec isn't super great for raid needs. Durable as ever of course but still can't get out of its own way. Still a haste addict with now a secondary mastery addiction getting as bad as haste. Destro and aff don't have such specific needs itemization wise which is nice.