[7.2 Guide] Protection - Back with Vengeance

[warbean]

Hello, guys! I decided to go with Versatility>Mastery>Haste>Crit build and its going nice for now. I got plenty of trinkets, but I decided for Horn of Valor ilvl 870 and Goblet of Nightmarish Ichor ilvl 865. What you think about that option as main? Raids and mythic+

I find the Goblet really difficult to use in raids as people will yell at you if you move out of the way to soak blobs, and they are often hard to see with the other textures in the EN. It's also not great in M+ as you are constantly moving from pack to pack and again don't have time to go out of the way to soak.

[Deleted]

I find the Goblet really difficult to use in raids as people will yell at you if you move out of the way to soak blobs, and they are often hard to see with the other textures in the EN. It's also not great in M+ as you are constantly moving from pack to pack and again don't have time to go out of the way to soak.

They never drop that far away from you (as far as I've seen), and they do move towards you, so you can just stand still and they will come to you. The only fights I've found it to be an issue on are fights where you run away from it.

In EN that would be Il'ganoth and Ursoc. Il'ganoth because you're running to go punch adds (but you can just side step and pick up the blob on the way to wherever you are going for the buff, so its not even that big a deal if you're watching closely) and on Ursoc because of the Miasma you might have to run away from a blood. This still doesn't seem like that big an issue.

In mythic+ this can be slightly more of an issue, but in the vast majority of cases its still fine, and its pretty insane uptime makes up for it imo.

[Rexawl]

Hey guys. I bet this was asked before, but i can't find it.
So, who knows what macro would make Focused Rage and Ignore Pain work with one button, assuming, of course, i took Vengeance?

I found these two over wow forums, but can't test it out till tomorrow, but dying from curiousity.

A simple macro: If the Vengeance talent is selected, then cast Focused Rage before Ignore Pain, otherwise just cast Ignore Pain...

#showtooltip Ignore Pain
/cast [talent:6/1] Focused Rage;
/cast Ignore Pain;

and this one

I made myself a macro for Vengeance and it works great:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=15 Ignore Pain, Focused Rage

Just hit the 1 button. I macro'd Shield Block in with Shield Slam too.

What is difference between these two?
Is there other variants?

Basically what i want, is just 1 button instead of two. I see it is possible, like in Exorsus vs Xavius Mythic World First video (sorry can't post links, /watch?v=eiOEz5YWHO4).

[kiklion]

Hey guys. I bet this was asked before, but i can't find it.
So, who knows what macro would make Focused Rage and Ignore Pain work with one button, assuming, of course, i took Vengeance?

I found these two over wow forums, but can't test it out till tomorrow, but dying from curiousity.


and this one

What is difference between these two?
Is there other variants?

Basically what i want, is just 1 button instead of two. I see it is possible, like in Exorsus vs Xavius Mythic World First video (sorry can't post links, /watch?v=eiOEz5YWHO4).

First, you really shouldn't use these macros. They don't help you get better, at best I'd say they bring you up from bad to mediocre but then keep you there.

The first macro is a single button press. You don't press it until you get to 60 rage or 39 with a free focused rage proc. Then you press the button and it casts FR and IP at once. If you press it too early then you end up just casting FR without rage for IP.

The second one is a cast sequence macro. This what exorsus used there.

[Deleted]

Versatility and Mastery
or
Haste and Mastery

Wowhead, Icy vains, AskMrRobot and a lot of youtube guides say one or another.

And I really have a dilemma, what is better?
And its probably a depending on situation scenario but I need the overall best

Regards

[slashroar]

Versatility and Mastery
or
Haste and Mastery

Wowhead, Icy vains, AskMrRobot and a lot of youtube guides say one or another.

And I really have a dilemma, what is better?
And its probably a depending on situation scenario but I need the overall best

Regards

Currently our secondary stats seem to be, roughly, something like this (for survivability)
Mastery > Versatility=Haste > Crit

For damage, versatility is the weakest. That leads me to recommend you to go haste+mastery because you will effectively lose no survivability while increasing your DPS

[Xrated969]

Question about gems and enchants. Mastery is my largest secondary stat at ~ 46%. Should I be going for more mastery or go for versatility? Thanks!

[Zeusrules]

Hey guys I have a question as well I have 2 wrists.
One with 855 itlvl stats : 765strg 1174stamina 245haste 502mastery
Second with 865 itlvl : 839strg 1258 stamina 488 crit and 288 haste.

I know crit is trash atm but I don't know if the itlvl diference is enough for me to trade, can you advise me ?

[Jasonhints]

Thanks for sharing. Can I translate this article to a Chinese official website forum?

[booi]

Currently our secondary stats seem to be, roughly, something like this (for survivability)
Mastery > Versatility=Haste > Crit

Can I ask for the source on these stat weights?

[Llarold]

Versatility and Mastery
or
Haste and Mastery

Wowhead, Icy vains, AskMrRobot and a lot of youtube guides say one or another.

And I really have a dilemma, what is better?
And its probably a depending on situation scenario but I need the overall best

Regards

Haste is the best damage reduction stat available until around 30%, at which point it makes way for Mastery. Versatility interacts positively with both Haste and Mastery, but is actually less than half as potent as Mastery when wearing equal values.

If you'd like some napkin math to feel more comfortable, consider this:
1k Vers adds 2.5% healing and 1.25% damage reduction.
1k Mastery adds 4.38% AP.
AP directly contributes to healing at a 1:1 ratio, and 4.38 > 3.75 by a ton. This does not factor in Critical Block at all, and it is by far the bigger contributor to damage reduction, providing 10-15 times more damage reduction from autoattacks than Versatility.

As such, you should aim for roughly 30% Haste while picking up mostly Mastery on the side. If you can manage to get about half as much Versatility as you have Mastery, that's great. Crit is a pretty low-weight stat across the board, and should not be a priority.

Icy-Veins and AskMrRobot are both out of date, and were never accurate.

If you're curious, I am the Wowhead Class Guide Writer for Protection Warrior, Blood Death Knight, and the worldwide #1 Brewmaster All-Star (fwtw, lol). The Wowhead guide is up-to-date, and these weights are accurate and based off of extensive SimCraft, log analysis, and ingame testing.

[orgonutil]

Haste is the best damage reduction stat available until around 30%, at which point it makes way for Mastery. Versatility interacts positively with both Haste and Mastery, but is actually less than half as potent as Mastery when wearing equal values.

If you'd like some napkin math to feel more comfortable, consider this:
1k Vers adds 2.5% healing and 1.25% damage reduction.
1k Mastery adds 4.38% AP.
AP directly contributes to healing at a 1:1 ratio, and 4.38 > 3.75 by a ton. This does not factor in Critical Block at all, and it is by far the bigger contributor to damage reduction, providing 10-15 times more damage reduction from autoattacks than Versatility.

As such, you should aim for roughly 30% Haste while picking up mostly Mastery on the side. If you can manage to get about half as much Versatility as you have Mastery, that's great. Crit is a pretty low-weight stat across the board, and should not be a priority.

Icy-Veins and AskMrRobot are both out of date, and were never accurate.

If you're curious, I am the Wowhead Class Guide Writer for Protection Warrior, Blood Death Knight, and the worldwide #1 Brewmaster All-Star (fwtw, lol). The Wowhead guide is up-to-date, and these weights are accurate and based off of extensive SimCraft, log analysis, and ingame testing.

it is safe tu use fury stats weight devaluating crit even more for pawn? where stamina and str should be?

[deadmanfred]

based off of extensive SimCraft, log analysis, and ingame testing.

Where are you getting your simcraft? I have yet to even run a proper sims as the current simcraft build prot warrior is no where near done.

One of the reasons that prot stats are so in question , you can't currently get accurate sim info.

[Llarold]

it is safe tu use fury stats weight devaluating crit even more for pawn? where stamina and str should be?

I think it has a potential to be misleading, but it probably won't hurt much as long as you go by the suggestions I gave before and don't treat Pawn's values as gospel. Stamina's really only available on a few trinkets and not very powerful, you can comfortably prioritize it below even Crit.
Strength is a bit more uncertain, as its contribution to damage reduction and self-healing is modest, but it is superior for dps to a hilarious degree. I'd recommend prioritizing Strength about as highly as Versatility.

Where are you getting your simcraft? I have yet to even run a proper sims as the current simcraft build prot warrior is no where near done.

One of the reasons that prot stats are so in question , you can't currently get accurate sim info.

What are you basing that on? I have it on good authority from gray_hound that Prot Warrior SimC is in fairly good shape. Several trinkets aren't working, but by and large the module is functional and accurate. The latest builds have a correctly-built rotation with results that corroborate what we know from logs and reasonably expect based on napkin math.

I feel that the reason Prot stats are so contentious is because people don't sim at all and "play it by feel," leading to unfounded conclusions like "Vers is the best stat because it increases self-healing *and* gives damage reduction - and it always works!" when it provides slightly more than half the self-healing of Mastery and far, far less actual damage reduction than Mastery. Either that or, equally bad, they run a single sim with one set of gear and assume that those values are applicable to all situations.
Stat values don't exist in a vacuum, and if you have zero Vers and 10k Mastery, then Vers will be 30 times more valuable than Mastery - right up until you trade a thousand Mastery for a thousand Vers. Then it won't.

[vanquishedValiant]

I'm well aware of how bad Crit is; but should I be avoiding it at all costs or is it okay to come out with a little bit on otherwise good pieces of gear? I can't imagine primarily Crit pieces are ever going to be good unless its a Legendary; eg I got an 885 Haste crit neck with a socket that I'm sitting on because I can't justify using it over my 845 Mastery / Haste +sock with no strength on it.

But how about like, shoulders? I've got several items I've saved around that are about 10 levels higher with Crit / Mas... Are these worth replacing Mas / Vers? Mas/ Haste?

[Emancptr]

If you'd like some napkin math to feel more comfortable, consider this:
1k Vers adds 2.5% healing and 1.25% damage reduction.
1k Mastery adds 4.38% AP.
AP directly contributes to healing at a 1:1 ratio, and 4.38 > 3.75 by a ton. This does not factor in Critical Block at all, and it is by far the bigger contributor to damage reduction, providing 10-15 times more damage reduction from autoattacks than Versatility.

1k Mastery doesn't give 4.38% AP. You're completely ignoring baseline AP that protection warriors have (8% AP). 1k Mastery gives something closer to 2.7-2.8% AP. Which according to your own napkin math would make Versatility the better stat.

You're yelling at people for "feely-crafting" and then proceeding to "feely-craft" yourself. Even your haste argument is "feely-crafting" for why 30% is good. Sure it gets you very close to 100% uptime on Shield Block, but that doesn't matter at all. You want 100% effective uptime (no melee attacks go unblocked) for Shield Block, which can be reached without even approaching 30% haste. Realistically for all the bosses in Emerald Nightmare, you need 60-75% total Shield Block uptime in order to have 100% effective uptime.

What are you basing that on? I have it on good authority from gray_hound that Prot Warrior SimC is in fairly good shape. Several trinkets aren't working, but by and large the module is functional and accurate. The latest builds have a correctly-built rotation with results that corroborate what we know from logs and reasonably expect based on napkin math.

Unless you're customizing SimCraft it's not even close to an accurate simulation. Here's a list of all the problems I can find in SimCraft after 10 minutes of work. I'm sure there's others that i'm not thinking of and/or won't notice without more in-depth comparison to logs.

1) Default boss options aren't anywhere close to Emerald Nightmare. This means default profile has less than 10% of its total rage generation from RFDT (the model for RFDT in SimC also might still be off).
2) SimC doesn't properly utilize Vengeance and Ultimatum talents. It uses Shield Barrier as soon as you have enough rage for it with the Vengeance Buff. This means you're constantly casting 20-30 rage Ignore Pains instead of 38-40 (definitely hasn't been updated to reflect the changes to Vengeance and Ultimatum talents).
3) Doesn't cast Neltharion's Fury. SimC is only set up to use it on 2+ targets or incredibly high damage intake. Neltharion's Fury is worth casting to fill Shield Block uptime gaps (Ursoc/Cenarius/Xavius).
4) Even with all of these problems, SimCraft currently weighs Versatility better than any other stat.

Show us a SimCraft where all of those issues are fixed, simulated against a somewhat realistic EN fight, and compared to live logs. Comparison to live logs would need to include similar DTPS, Ability Usage, and correct Rage Generation. Once you've done that, you can make a real argument for which stats are best. Until then, you're also just "feely-crafting."

[Lysozyme]

I think there are some bosses where more than 75% uptime on shield block would be a good idea, but yeah, for many regular tank switching bosses you don't need even close to 30% haste. I'd go for 30% haste in dungeons though.

SimCraft not only has a bad default APL, but it is also coded incorrectly because not everything is implemented. I don't think the 33% nerf to Ignore Pain has been implemented, even, let alone other potential issues.

Finally, not only did you omit base mastery as Emancptr already pointed out, you also said that attack power increases healing done on a 1:1 ratio. This makes no sense whatsoever.

The formula for Ignore Pain, ignoring talents (which wouldn't change anything here), before the 33% nerf was 28*AP*vers. After the 33% nerf it's roughly 18.7*AP*vers (though it's actually a little different, but whatever, doesn't matter).

Going from 0% to 1% vers means that you increase that by 1%. Going from 0% to 1% mastery (if that were possible, which it isn't, because of base mastery) means that you increase it by 1%.

But going from, say, 10% to 11% vers, means that you increase it by 0.909% (3 s.f.). So it's not as straightforward as you were making it out to be, either.

Also, you're rank 1 all-star brewmaster in heroic. Not in mythic. You're rank 13 all-star brewmaster in mythic. C'mon man.

[Deleted]

Tbf haste becomes useless when youre nto activly tanking 100% of the time wich is alot in raids, I stil think vers/mastery is best because of that, and tag some haste along with it but avoid crit at all costs.

[Grenxis]

Tbf haste becomes useless when youre nto activly tanking 100% of the time wich is alot in raids, I stil think vers/mastery is best because of that, and tag some haste along with it but avoid crit at all costs.

Von, won't all other stats be useless as well while not actively tanking? :-D

Irony aside, I do value haste myself though I don't find it obligatory to min-max up to the Shield Block cap unless you are dealing with mythic Cenarius (the boss himself) or any other fight where you got something in your face for longer than a minute.

[Deleted]

First, you really shouldn't use these macros. They don't help you get better, at best I'd say they bring you up from bad to mediocre but then keep you there.

Such nonsense. Why not use both? I have a lazy button and separate keybindings for FR/IP.