Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Deleted]

Shoulders will be kinda useless after 7.2.5 anyway. But we gonna lose Traitor's Oath set for sure

[Thunderboots]

Good work Azor!

[Effinhunter]

Simcraft results for BM, postnerf, as of last night's nightly build


------ BM best legendary combos ------

BM legendary combos, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)


------ BM individual legendaries ------

BM legendaries, with stat stick, 41 traits through Thunder, 10k iterations, 5 minutes (Simcraft Source)


BM legendaries, 41 traits through Thunder, 10k iterations, 5 minutes (Simcraft Source)


BM legendaries, 42 traits through Cobra, 10k iterations, 5 minutes (Simcraft Source)





------ BM artifact ------

After the huge nerf to Thunder and buff to Cobra, priority has changed a bit for single target
(41) Thunder-> (42) Cobra-> (43) PL-> (44) JoT-> (45) UtB -> (46) WE -> (47) SC

BM pathways 40->44 traits, CoF, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)


BM with tier, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)



tldr; the nerf hit the legendary bracers really hard. The WE trait is far less useful. Convergence of Fate is no longer really better than a stat stick of similar ilvl. Leaving first post as/is for a day or two so you can easily see the difference.

[Kayagurcu]

after all are we saying good bye to df+bf+bracers+cof setuo ?

[Tehterokkar]

@Effinhunter how come your BM sims show belt so high? For me Belt is like 30-40k DPS increase and Shoulders are 70k. I use KJC as my 2nd Leggy for the sims.

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tldr; the nerf hit the legendary bracers really hard. The WE trait is far less useful. Convergence of Fate is no longer really better than a stat stick of similar ilvl. Leaving first post as/is for a day or two so you can easily see the difference.

Also about this, my 890 CoF still handily beats my 890 Crit+socket stat stick and 880+Socket BTI. If I finally get Mythic CoF, the difference will be even greater(we've killed Elisande 6 times and she hasn't dropped CoF yet :c ).

[bazzzyl]

My max dps after nerfs:

- Sholders + CoF + Urn 895 + Brac = 889k
- Sholders + Belt + Urn 895 + Foci = 920k

[Sabinn]

@Effinhunter how come your BM sims show belt so high? For me Belt is like 30-40k DPS increase and Shoulders are 70k. I use KJC as my 2nd Leggy for the sims.

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Also about this, my 890 CoF still handily beats my 890 Crit+socket stat stick and 880+Socket BTI. If I finally get Mythic CoF, the difference will be even greater(we've killed Elisande 6 times and she hasn't dropped CoF yet :c ).

Thats because belt and Apex combo really well.

Apex increases pet damage which increases kill command and belt makes you hit more kill commands.

[Deleted]

what about the other BM legendairy combo's ?

i got belt, boots, kj trinket, roots, sephuz and prydaz lol... no mantle and no wrists....
I see dps wise boots and legs are very similar and legs give hp regen back extra...

[Kirbypro]

interesting, just got ring as my 8th leggo. Still no mantle. I should try running with belt + ring.

Although Belt + prydaz has been really really good to me on progress.

[Effinhunter]

I've run talents again with 900/930 ilvl, but I haven't had a chance to look at results. I'll post later if I don't see any issues. I can also look into the legendary sim for BM and see if I've made any obvious errors there.

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what about the other BM legendairy combo's ?

i got belt, boots, kj trinket, roots, sephuz and prydaz lol... no mantle and no wrists....
I see dps wise boots and legs are very similar and legs give hp regen back extra...

I was hoping to get to other specs first. I was on vacation last week, and the recent buffs/nerfs forced me to restart. I'm working on it.

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interesting, just got ring as my 8th leggo. Still no mantle. I should try running with belt + ring.

Although Belt + prydaz has been really really good to me on progress.

I literally just got shoulders last night out of my cache. It was my 10th legendary, and I still don't have the belt. The only thing you can really do in current system is just be patient and clear as many of the eligible raids as possible. I'm currently just trying to do all lfrs, normal, and heroics in pugs.

I do provide source for the sim, so if you want to see combinations like this on your gear, you should be able to copy and paste or use an armory import (e.g., armory=us,server,char_name)

[Tehterokkar]

Thats because belt and Apex combo really well.

Apex increases pet damage which increases kill command and belt makes you hit more kill commands.

What? Apex? Wut?

[Effinhunter]

3. Talents Breakdown

------ Single Target ------

BM Single Target, All Talent Combinations, 41 traits, 5m, 10k iterations, Simcraft Source


MM Single Target, All Talent Combinations, 41 traits, 5m, 10k iterations, Simcraft Source


SV Single Target, All Talent Combinations, 41 traits, 5m, 10k iterations, Simcraft Source


Obviously, no legendaries included here, so as always, keep that in mind. Also, only 41 traits. I need to just up that to 44 in the next batch I end up running.

[HappyLuckBox]

Hey effin, I am curious, how do you tell simcraft to account for a perfectly used sephuz? I am pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. Please let me know, thank you

[Sabinn]

What? Apex? Wut?

http://www.wowhead.com/item=137382/t...predators-claw

[Effinhunter]

Hey effin, I am curious, how do you tell simcraft to account for a perfectly used sephuz? I am pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. Please let me know, thank you

I created a tabard that uses the effect on cd. It's meant to just show theoretic max on trash or boss interrupts. Not meant to mean anything else.

[HappyLuckBox]

I created a tabard that uses the effect on cd. It's meant to just show theoretic max on trash or boss interrupts. Not meant to mean anything else.

A tabard? Could you elaborate? How do you macro a tabard to use sephuz and input all this into simcraft? I just need to compare the theoretical max of using sephuz as opposed to another piece of equipment i have in mythic+. I'm really not sure what is higher theoretical dps so I am attempting to sim this but I don't know how to simcraft it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Specifically I am trying to compare using sephuz or using war belt of the sentinel army with meme spec MM. Since mythic+ has plenty of opportunities to interrupt, sephuz has a near perfect proc rate in dungeons for me, but war belt giving me extremely powerful aimed shots (contrary to popular belief) works very well with meme spec. Both have given me overall dps roughly around 1.2-1.4million per dungeon but I really would like to know which is best overall.

[Effinhunter]

A tabard? Could you elaborate? How do you macro a tabard to use sephuz and input all this into simcraft? I just need to compare the theoretical max of using sephuz as opposed to another piece of equipment i have in mythic+. I'm really not sure what is higher theoretical dps so I am attempting to sim this but I don't know how to simcraft it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Specifically I am trying to compare using sephuz or using war belt of the sentinel army with meme spec MM. Since mythic+ has plenty of opportunities to interrupt, sephuz has a near perfect proc rate in dungeons for me, but war belt giving me extremely powerful aimed shots (contrary to popular belief) works very well with meme spec. Both have given me overall dps roughly around 1.2-1.4million per dungeon but I really would like to know which is best overall.

Simcraft source is posted with each sim. Simply open the Simcraft Source link, search for "perfect" and you will find the changes underneath that profile. Essentially, by creating a custom tabard with an on-use, Simcraft's default APL is modified to use the tabard on cd.

Note that this tabard does not have a GCD and is focus-less, so this is completely theoretical.

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------ MM artifact ------

MM with tier, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)


Modified the 44th trait shown to be QS4 instead of WG4 as the dps gain was better. MM unfortunately has a pretty lackluster path after 43 (traits are just weak).

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------ SV artifact ------

SV with tier, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)


SV has reasonably good options in traits and a nice starting baseline for dps. This bodes well for scalability.

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Working on legendary sims for each spec with 44 traits invested, tier, 900/930 ilvl

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BM legendaries, 44 traits, 10k iterations, 5 minutes (Simcraft Source)


MM legendaries, 44 traits, 10k iterations, 5 minutes (Simcraft Source)


SV legendaries, 44 traits, 10k iterations, 5 minutes (Simcraft Source)


Keep in mind that these are individual legendaries. Many of these synergize and I'll post combos with 44 traits later.

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------ BM best legendary combos ------

BM legendary combos, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)


------ SV best legendary combos ------

SV legendary combos, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)


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First post updated to here. Still have to work on MM legendary combos.

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------ MM best legendary combos ------

MM legendary combos, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)


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Updated first post and consolidated the legendary sims into groups based on combinations of legendaries and individual power with no synergies. All should be 44 traits there.

My next big project is to rerun all the trinket sims. AoE sims are also on my todo list.

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BM legendary combos with KJ pairings added for belt, mantle and ring.

[Khrux]

No sim love for Qapla, I can't see how it isn't in top 3-4 combos unless simcraft just cannot use the boots effectively.

[Deleted]

Hey Effin,

i'm very curious how the trinket sims for MM will be.
Is there something i could run with SimC at home while i'm at work to help you with the results?

Regards
Rilf

[Effinhunter]

Hey Effin,

i'm very curious how the trinket sims for MM will be.
Is there something i could run with SimC at home while i'm at work to help you with the results?

Regards
Rilf

I've uploaded the trinket sims here:

--------- Trinkets -------------

BM, 44 traits, Talents (2202012), 895/925 gear: Single Target
MM, 44 traits, Talents (1103013), 895/925 gear: Single Target
SV, 44 traits, Talents (3101032), 895/925 gear: Single Target

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Back when I was running the hunter forums at EJ, people often did help out with trinket sims, since they are so time intensive. I do appreciate that kind of offer. Here's how you can use Simcraft Explorer right now (I need to make time to update some documentation on the open source site).

Download and extract latest Simcraft nightly for your system: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
Download Simcraft Explorer (should be only file there): https://sourceforge.net/projects/sim...les/installers

Install Simcraft Explorer and follow the README.txt file. It shows you how to setup your operating system environment to run the Simcraft Explorer tools and scripts. You can try running "%SE_ROOT%\se -h". If it prints a help menu, then you're probably good to go.

I've added a script in the following location that runs all AoE trinket sims. Eventually, I'll want to run this script to do 3 and 6 target sims for all specs. This will run all 740 trinket configs for each situation.

%SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_all_aoe_trinkets.bat

However, I haven't tweaked the talents in these to reflect what we might want to see here. In the past, I've switched back and forth between going with a pure AoE build that tries to maximize the damage or go with a stock single target build (or generic build that is best of breed for current tier). I haven't really looked at what is even in the scripts that .bat file is calling right now (can see an example here: https://sourceforge.net/p/simcraftex...t_trinkets.bat, where -t is the talents parameter, 3103031 in this instance for BM 3 target).

Other things I need to run are the 3 target and 6 target 44 trait talent sims. Here's how I tend to run them.

1. Download latest simcraft source for the talent sim. E.g. http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/...ents_tier.simc for BM talents sim with tier.
2. Download and extract latest Simcraft nightly for your system: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
3. Run the following from the command line: %SIMCRAFT_ROOT%\simc bm_talents_tier.simc html=bm_talents_tier_3.html iterations=5000 threads=4 enemy=enemy1 enemy=enemy2 enemy=enemy3

This will run 5000 iterations with 4 threads and 3 enemies and will save a HTML output file at bm_talents_tier_3.html that you can look at when it is done. If you can afford to do more iterations or more threads, go for it. I usually just screenshot the HTML output, crop the results in Paint or Gimp or whatever, and post them here.

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No sim love for Qapla, I can't see how it isn't in top 3-4 combos unless simcraft just cannot use the boots effectively.

Tried to add some more qapla combos (only had one in previous list). Also realized that I was still replacing BTI with KJ in the BM sims when it should have been convergence replaced after the nerf.

BM legendary combos, 44 traits, 10k iterations, 5m (Simcraft Source)