Patch 7.03, the end of master loot pugs?

[Raelbo]

You know it must be a EU thing then. Because it's been quite a few years since I met a raid leader in pugs that acted that way. During guild raids where we've pugged 2-3 people or up to 10 on alt raids we've never once ninja'd loot. It happens once and people act like it's the norm for pugs which it isn't.

I have never had issues with guild runs. But completely random pugs? Yes definitely. I have seen it happen to others and it's happened to me.

9 times out of 10 a piece of loot is ninja'd is due to players not understanding the rules when they join the group. Is it really the fault of the raid leader when they say Tier Reserved, Mainspec/Offspec and they don't get to roll on tier? Don't join the group if you can't read.

While I agree that often people will get upset because they didn't read the loot rules properly, I am specifically referring to cases where it's genuine ninja looting. Here is the example of what happened to me:

I had been having rotten luck getting Mirror of the Blademaster (an awesome trinket from the council boss in HFC). I wanted it especially for doing challenge modes and it just wasn't dropping, even with coins, in our guild heroic runs. So I started joining normal mode pugs to get a second chance at it.

In the third week I joined a group in which I was probably the best geared and when I joined I specifically asked if any gear was reserved. The raid leader replied that it was not. We killed the boss, the trinket dropped and my roll won. The raid leader then told me that because my gear was better (ie higher ilevel) I was inelligible for the trinket and he gave it to a hunter from his own realm (presumably his friend). When I protested he got pretty abusive and told me I should go to BRF mythic if I wanted a better trinket. Of course I reported him, and I reckon there is a good chance he got into a bit of trouble for a clear case of loot scamming, but at the end of the day I never got the reward I deserved.

Ultimately I don't care if I pugged 20 times and in those times, 95% of the items that dropped were awarded fairly or within the stated loot rules. What I remember is that one incident and it really tainted the entire pugging experience for the expansion for me.

[nekobaka]

What stops people form joining the guild masters guild for the duration of the run?

Unsurprising comment from the same person who keeps blaming hardcores for their so called long standing guild dying three expansions in the row while ignoring that many do not want to join some guild led by a shitty raid leader when they could get farther in casual PuGs.

[Marrilaife]

Thats like i was enjoying live but then i got mugged by this stranger and then it tainted my life for me forever

Not sure why you make fun of this, if a person gets mugged in an alley they won't remember 20 times they passed through there safe, they will remember that 1 time and probably avoid that alley for the rest of their life. Well, unless they live in a ghetto and every alley is "thug life".

Most people will avoid that one thing that brought them bad experience. That's how living beings are hardwired - avoid danger, pain and unpleasantries. Losing an item in a video game is not physically painful or dangerous but it's unpleasant and follows the rule - next time avoid negative experience if I can.

I find it absolutely valid that a person who got loot scammed in a pug will avoid pugs. Maybe they will find a guild, maybe they will avoid raiding altogether, maybe they will stick to lfr. A lot of players do so. It's not weird by any stretch of imagination.

Deliberately seeking painful experiences is actually more weird and a sign of mental health problems, same as people who cut themselves or repeatedly go into abusive relationships - these people seek physical or mental pain, they exist, but it's neither normal nor healthy. In that aspect I can imagine some people enjoy the "toxic community" because they thrive in an abusive environment, as both abusers and victims.

However if Blizzard doesn't want wow to become a slum where everything goes "thug life" they have to police the place, that's why silence penalty, loot changes, mob tapping changes and so on. Because in a sad state of things people started more hating than enjoying having other people around "in an MMO".