[7.2] Legion Holy Priest Discussion

[Clamidiaa]

Apotheosis is indeed a massive thoughput upgrade for situations where it's needed. But those situations are not dungeons. CoH gives you stuff to do while moving (which you usually do a lot of in dungeons).

That reason alone is why I would take CoH over anything else in dungeons. I may, huge may, take Apotheosis for some dungeons if I know that the trash isn't bad so I can have it for the oh shit bosses. That's the only reason I would take Apotheosis over CoH in dungeons, having a heal on the move is too good not to have in tight quarters.

Benediction will be horrible for dungeons, unless their is constant damage being taken by all members because you are losing Prayer stacks to the duration timer and not getting the full benefit of the talent. The same reasoning goes for raiding and Benediction.

[Chaoly]

A bit off topic but can we get a better animation for HW Sanctify? It is pretty underwhelming that it just shares the animation with a spammable disc spell (pw radiance).

[Deleted]

That reason alone is why I would take CoH over anything else in dungeons. I may, huge may, take Apotheosis for some dungeons if I know that the trash isn't bad so I can have it for the oh shit bosses. That's the only reason I would take Apotheosis over CoH in dungeons, having a heal on the move is too good not to have in tight quarters.

Benediction will be horrible for dungeons, unless their is constant damage being taken by all members because you are losing Prayer stacks to the duration timer and not getting the full benefit of the talent. The same reasoning goes for raiding and Benediction.

well actually.. I didn't try it myself, but I remember reading there was a mythic + mechanic that would make you take constant damage.
The thing about Apotheosis is, it has a rampup time. It's not like a revival, or even tide/tranq. You need time inbetween holy words to cast your regular spells, and if the fight doesn't allow that, the talent is super useless.

[Gorsameth]

well actually.. I didn't try it myself, but I remember reading there was a mythic + mechanic that would make you take constant damage.
The thing about Apotheosis is, it has a rampup time. It's not like a revival, or even tide/tranq. You need time inbetween holy words to cast your regular spells, and if the fight doesn't allow that, the talent is super useless.

If 5 people dying during Sanctify > 4x Prayer of Healing > Sanctify they would always have died regardless of which class of Healer you bring.
Tide/Tranq/Revival wouldnt have managed either.

[VigilantRose]

Apotheosis is indeed a massive thoughput upgrade for situations where it's needed. But those situations are not dungeons. CoH gives you stuff to do while moving (which you usually do a lot of in dungeons).

You do a lot moving between battles, but not so much in battles. More importantly, Holy's reactive healing mechanic means that Holy can far more efficiently allocate movement time. For most healers in a tense situations, there's something they need to do right now. If that something involves a cast time spell (which it usually does), they're in trouble if movement is necessary. But Holy can essentially reset the health bars on a whim, so you can often make a decision to move rather than heal where another healer would be forced to move.

I think part of the problem lies with your notion that you need to do something while moving. In a raid setting, always-be-casting makes some sense from the standpoint that the damage needs to be eventually healed by someone. In a 5-man setting (or any solo heal setting), Holy is 'doing something' even when you're just standing around looking at the pretty flowers: you're cooling down enormous, hyper-efficient heals.

If you go back and forth between playing Discipline and Holy, you can really notice the difference in mobility. Despite the fact that Discipline's toolkit allows for much more movement and the two specs (effectively) have the same (mediocre) movement abilities, Holy is significantly more 'mobile' because it's not locked into necessary casting like Discipline is. Indeed, you can experience the same sort of impact between a Resto Druid (who I think we can agree is ridiculously more mobile in the conventional sense than a Priest) and a Holy Priest. The Resto Druid showing up late to the party really struggles despite their mobility, while the Holy Priest strolls in a second or two later and just casually takes control.

[xdmemes]

It doesn't share an animation with Radiance, it uses the same animation as the old Clarity of Purpose from 6.2 Holy.

PWR's animation is just little holy bolts flying out at people.

It's the same animation... only PW:R sends 2 carbon copy PoMs flying at people as well.

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Anyone have the math on Flash Heal w/ Trail of Light v. Heal efficiency? I imagine they're pretty close.

[Isheria]

Flash Heal with trail of light is 761% sp for 30800 mana - 0.025% sp hpm
Heal is 543% sp for 18700 mana - 0.029% sp hpm

All relevant artifact traits in both cases are included, values are also rounded.

[Xio]

Looks like all top ranked holy priest in this pre patch are using gems and enchants focus in crit. At this phase crit are more important than mastery?

[Djriff]

Looks like all top ranked holy priest in this pre patch are using gems and enchants focus in crit. At this phase crit are more important than mastery?

Mainly depends on your healing comp. If you find your EoL doing a lot of overhealing (~80%+) then i'd swap crit.

[Deleted]

Mainly depends on your healing comp. If you find your EoL doing a lot of overhealing (~80%+) then i'd swap crit.

More like ~50%+ tbh

[Deleted]

If 5 people dying during Sanctify > 4x Prayer of Healing > Sanctify they would always have died regardless of which class of Healer you bring.
Tide/Tranq/Revival wouldnt have managed either.

This is exactly what I meant, the time it takes to get Sanctify > 4x PoH > Sanctify off, is quite long compared to a revival. Apotheosis is the kind of CD that is good for gorefiend, tyrant, archimonde etc. Fights where there is a timed spike dmg, and a healing CD will help you recover from that.
Now imagine having to use Apotheosis for a spike dmg that lasts 3-5 sec, the value drops a lot, and you'll end up in a situation where a revival before the last tick of dmg or a tide rolling constantly will be a lot more effective.

I'm not saying Apotheosis is bad or anything, but is needs time to work, and if the fight won't allow you to gain that time, you might aswell not take it.

[VigilantRose]

This is exactly what I meant, the time it takes to get Sanctify > 4x PoH > Sanctify off, is quite long compared to a revival. Apotheosis is the kind of CD that is good for gorefiend, tyrant, archimonde etc. Fights where there is a timed spike dmg, and a healing CD will help you recover from that.

Even without spike damage, it still saves you a significant amount of mana. It may seem silly to drop a Sanctify to heal routine bumps & scrapes, but free is free.

[Gorsameth]

This is exactly what I meant, the time it takes to get Sanctify > 4x PoH > Sanctify off, is quite long compared to a revival. Apotheosis is the kind of CD that is good for gorefiend, tyrant, archimonde etc. Fights where there is a timed spike dmg, and a healing CD will help you recover from that.
Now imagine having to use Apotheosis for a spike dmg that lasts 3-5 sec, the value drops a lot, and you'll end up in a situation where a revival before the last tick of dmg or a tide rolling constantly will be a lot more effective.

I'm not saying Apotheosis is bad or anything, but is needs time to work, and if the fight won't allow you to gain that time, you might aswell not take it.

Then you use Barrier instead?

If there are the sort of spikes where you need major raid cooldowns (Barrier/Revival/Tranq/Tide) then speccing Apotheosis gives you 2 such cooldowns (apotheosis + Barrier), which I do believe is more then any other healer can bring.

[Djriff]

More like ~50%+ tbh

Well EoL will always overheal, it's more when it's overhealing that's a greater concern. I think 80% definitely justifies moving away from mastery lol.

Then you use Barrier instead?

Barrier is disc mate.

[Xio]

I looked at my logs the overhealing of EoL was from 55-70% depend on the boss. I will move gems and enchants to crit and see if gets better. EoL tick too slow and it is a complain because druids, monks and shamans have faster ticking heals. Thats also put our mastery in check in legion. If the raid is not full health our mastery will be very good otherwise crit or ver should be prefered one.

[Djriff]

I looked at my logs the overhealing of EoL was from 55-70% depend on the boss. I will move gems and enchants to crit and see if gets better. EoL tick too slow and it is a complain because druids, monks and shamans have faster ticking heals. Thats also put our mastery in check in legion. If the raid is not full health our mastery will be very good otherwise crit or ver should be prefered one.

It's been that way for awhile. Back in MoP i preferred Crit and Haste over mastery so i was more of a burst healer, worked out great.

[xdmemes]

In severely nerfed content where bosses last ~1 minute and can be solo healed it doesn't matter a great deal what you gem/enchant.

[Nightstorm]

Well EoL will always overheal, it's more when it's overhealing that's a greater concern. I think 80% definitely justifies moving away from mastery lol.

As long as they tune holy assuming most echo will be overhealing. The problem Holy priest has always had is since most of it's mastery is overhealing we are low on meters and don't get a raid spot. It's not that holy has a crap mastery as much as people are noobs and only go off meters. I have raided with two top 100 guilds that picked healers specs just off meters alone. They bring all the healers and they praise the old disc priests and paladins 0_o. Quality of life for a Holy priest has been more than math, it's perception.

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Apotheosis is indeed a massive thoughput upgrade for situations where it's needed. But those situations are not dungeons. CoH gives you stuff to do while moving (which you usually do a lot of in dungeons).

I have found that to fully take advantage of apotheosis you would have to do major mana conservation which is not possible to keep a raid spot. Apotheosis needs more than a mana reduction to power word spells. It needs a 50% reduction to mana across the board.

[anon5123]

Yeah, only reason Apotheosis is working so well right now is because fights are 2-4 minutes long and mana isn't an issue. I reckon that for 5-8 minute fights in Legion, it's not going to work so well.

[Djriff]

Yeah, only reason Apotheosis is working so well right now is because fights are 2-4 minutes long and mana isn't an issue. I reckon that for 5-8 minute fights in Legion, it's not going to work so well.

I think it'll pair well with Symbol of Hope. I could see bringing 2 holy priests and just using apotheosis for those insane raid wide damage moments. Would be fun at the least.