Are the new hunter specs fun?

[Deleted]

Been playing a hunter for about 9 years now and I've never disliked it as much as I do now. I feel lost without my traps in BM and MM and I'm too stubborn to play a dumb melee hunter.

I am almost on same boat, bm is too boring, mm is too rng and survival is melee, but survival seems like may be in top5 of hardest classes atleast for me (prob because its a new one).

[Riistov]

A lot of people are freaking out because they aren't quite intelligent enough to realise that some of the rotation is broken since they are missing important artifact talents/traits.

In beta, even being level 110 with an artifact weapon, it still feels like MM and BM are missing something. Perhaps giving back arcane/multi shot would work? I know they are replaced by sidewinders, but it feels both specs are missing more than the artifact gives.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I'm enjoying Survival right now. Part of the appeal is that it's not a simple spec and it challenges me to keep working at making the most of it.

BM is nice for when it's late but your friends want you to keep playing and you want to do decent dps without thinking too hard.

[Alopex Major]

I quit my hunter of 10 years over the changes, so no, I don't find it fun.

[mistahwilshire]

I quit my hunter of 10 years over the changes, so no, I don't find it fun.

Seems extreme given these aren't even close to the worst changes we've ever received.

[Deleted]

Nope, hunter is not fun. It is as far from fun as its possible.

The ranged non-caster class is gone.
Playstyle dumbed down to clown level.
Big chunk of your utility is ripped. Unviable in pvp, boring as old arcane mage in pve.

As a big MM fan, i want my chimera shot and steady shot back, I want that my special shots eat up my focus, while i build it up with steady. Want my traps and deterrence back. In this iteration i find this spec unplayable.

I didnt say the class is unplayable, because Surv is surprisingly good!
But man, we have like 47 other melee...

[Deleted]

I played mostly in WotLK and Cata. Seems incredibly dumbed down now. So little utility, zero support ability. They stripped everything that made the class unique. Just feels like a boring caster now. The worst thing is being sat with 10 focus and waiting 2-3 seconds waiting to actually do something as RNG hasn't procced anything. I don't know how Blizzard can give you a class where you just stand still and wait to do something and think its fun to play.

[sayne9]

I played mostly in WotLK and Cata. Seems incredibly dumbed down now. So little utility, zero support ability. They stripped everything that made the class unique. Just feels like a boring caster now. The worst thing is being sat with 10 focus and waiting 2-3 seconds waiting to actually do something as RNG hasn't procced anything. I don't know how Blizzard can give you a class where you just stand still and wait to do something and think its fun to play.

They fucked up with the overall class design. They made it so that we are limited by a resource and not by the gcd, which is what we were limited by before. When you are limited by a resource you get downtime. Personally I am fine with that. Problem is is that they didn't give us anything to think about what to do with our limited resource. Ferals used to have to decide to rake, ferocious bite, or re-up savage roar. The wrong choice hurt your dps. We don't have a choice. We build to nothing. We just wait for the buttons to be able to get hit again.

The specs needed something to maintain. Something that made us think about our resource and if we will have enough to do x when we need to because if we didn't have enough we hurt our dps. Instead we just mindlessly hit the buttons because we have nothing to worry about.

[thewallofsleep]

I haven't played my hunter, but the general consensus in this thread appears to be: complex and convoluted "rotation" = fun.

[Pundit]

I haven't played my hunter, but the general consensus in this thread appears to be: complex and convoluted "rotation" = fun.

Not quite...

I've played a hunter for the better part of 11 years now as my main. I've been there for every change they've ever thrown at us. Things will never be as bad as the one button BM macro in TBC, but the Legion changes remove any kind of critical thinking about your next action other than waiting for your focus to recover. Contrast that with, say, the new Enhancement Shaman, which is one of the most well designed specs in the expansion. Diverse talent options, multiple play styles within the same spec. Real thinking about what the next best possible action could be. The effect that various trinkets and legendaries have on those decisions.

Go look at the hunter legendaries. All they do is make your already simple "rotation" more powerful or provide some much needed utility. Everything about MM and BM artifact traits and set bonuses don't change anything about how you play at the high end. Windburst is the Aimed Shot you wish Aimed Shot was. Meanwhile, as an enhancement Shaman, there is legitimate debate over whether or not using Lava Lash more frequently over Crash Lightning will be viable due to the set bonuses and legendaries available to you.

[Nythiz]

I haven't played my hunter, but the general consensus in this thread appears to be: complex and convoluted "rotation" = fun.

Hardly, but what they created here is just not it. I don't necessarily need a difficult rotation or a difficult spec to have fun; hell I liked the rather simplistic approach of BM hunters previously.
What I do need though, is a spec/rotation that feels like there was some thought put into it. Things that flow nice or have nice interactions. A few things that make being skillful rewarding.

The new BM feels like they've taken out every ability that required some form of skill and just made it bland. Even BW is (generally) pop on cooldown now, or you'll lose uptime due to resets.

[Kwaai]

I haven't played my hunter, but the general consensus in this thread appears to be: complex and convoluted "rotation" = fun.

I'm not sure how you got the impression that the WoD specs were convoluted. They weren't. Current MM is just about the most convoluted spec I've ever played, outside of maybe Naxxramas Affliction. Waiting -- doing literally nothing -- for a Hunter's Mark when you're at low focus and Sidewinders is on cooldown has got to be an oversight because of how idiotic it is. It has nothing to do with difficulty (I'd argue Legion MM is more difficult than WoD MM), it's just shit tier gameplay.

[Deleted]

Since when was a hunter rotation complex?

[TOM_RUS]

Seems extreme given these aren't even close to the worst changes we've ever received.

Pretty sure Legion hunter changes are worst changes in game history. Hunters never been that bad as they are now.

[Sillicis]

no
/charx10andshit

[Deleted]

Nope, hunter is not fun. It is as far from fun as its possible.

The ranged non-caster class is gone.
Playstyle dumbed down to clown level.
Big chunk of your utility is ripped. Unviable in pvp, boring as old arcane mage in pve.

As a big MM fan, i want my chimera shot and steady shot back, I want that my special shots eat up my focus, while i build it up with steady. Want my traps and deterrence back. In this iteration i find this spec unplayable.

I didnt say the class is unplayable, because Surv is surprisingly good!
But man, we have like 47 other melee...

Pretty weird that you praise hunters as a non-caster class and then defend this steady shot spam crap we had to deal with since cataclysm...as much as I hate spamming arcane shot to regenerate energy, its still better than spamming a boring 1.5 sec cast twice in a row every 5 seconds.It would be like a fire mage having to generate mana with scorch, how awful would that be?

The real non casting hunter (except for the old aimed shot) was back when hunters had mana. It was actually more dynamic.

I agree on the loss of deterrence and many utility spells (but the pruning already started in cataclysm)

- - - Updated - - -

Since when was a hunter rotation complex?

Never but its the usual cognitive bias against change.

Especially those complaining that BM is now a braindead spec...rolf when WASNT BM a brainless spec? When the spec was overpowered? (Mist of pandaria early patches?)

[Keny]

When you get used to the changes they are pretty cool, BM's passive regen is something fresh, disabling the generator-spender rotation, its still abit dull with only a few abilities but it will get better with artifact.
MM is alot more "proper" ranged dps when you have alot less ability to dps while moving (if u have no instant Aimed shots), Ive been playing both specs and MM is abit better Imo but i think i will level up as BM and main BM in raids, depends on best output ofc..

As for survival, I havent touched It yet, It seems kind of fun but alas Im not really Into maining melee and If I would Id prolly play rogue.

TLDR: the skies are not falling and Its all fun and games.

[Deleted]

Hardly, but what they created here is just not it. I don't necessarily need a difficult rotation or a difficult spec to have fun; hell I liked the rather simplistic approach of BM hunters previously.
What I do need though, is a spec/rotation that feels like there was some thought put into it. Things that flow nice or have nice interactions. A few things that make being skillful rewarding.

The new BM feels like they've taken out every ability that required some form of skill and just made it bland. Even BW is (generally) pop on cooldown now, or you'll lose uptime due to resets.

Did BM ever require any form of skill to perform well?Really? The rotation was always pretty damn stupid and straightforward

[Nythiz]

I'm not sure how you got the impression that the WoD specs were convoluted. They weren't. Current MM is just about the most convoluted spec I've ever played, outside of maybe Naxxramas Affliction. Waiting -- doing literally nothing -- for a Hunter's Mark when you're at low focus and Sidewinders is on cooldown has got to be an oversight because of how idiotic it is. It has nothing to do with difficulty (I'd argue Legion MM is more difficult than WoD MM), it's just shit tier gameplay.

I'm going to have to be honest though. If you really have this happen often, you're doing something wrong.

With about 20% haste it's quite easy to keep the MM rotation flowing quite decently. There are hardly ever moments where I really run out of either focus and sidewinder charges.
HOWEVER, there are 2 factors to keep in mind.
1) 4p T18 is not flowing well with the sidewinder playstyle. It's probably still optimal to use, but the cast time on aimed shot makes the rotation feel more fleshed out and there is less chance of you running either out of focus or sidewinder charges. (Plus it goes much better with patient sniper, as you can get a nicer rotation going of 2 AiS per vulnerable buff before you either have to marked shot or sidewinder again).
2) Windburst is going to alleviate some focus concerns. With a rather lowish 20 focus cost it's the filler you're generally missing right before sidewinders come off CD again.

Frankly I don't think the new MM rotation is all that bad. There are other issues with this spec that annoy me, but the rotation is ok (IMO at least).

MM is... is broken, yes it hits hard and does a lot of dmg if used correcly, but is a 4 button class and if you don't have the Tier (Bonus 4: insta-aimedshot) is just terrible. you're casting for like 3 seconds while your target vulnerability only lasts 6 seconds (with patient sniper) it's a waste if L'n'L doesn't proc.

This is just plain wrong IMO. I've played a decent amount without the 4 piece (mostly to get a feel for the rotation at 110); and it actually flows a whole lot better WITHOUT the 4P in my opinion.
As long as you can get used to not moving during aimed shot (which is a hefty change, but nothing game-breaking or unfamiliar if you're a long time hunter player), it's not bad.

Sidewinders -> Aimed Shot -> Aimed Shot -> Marked Shot -> Aimed Shot (-> Aimed Shot) is perfectly viable.
Sidewinders gives you a 6 second window. 1.5 sec is taken up by the GCD recharge of Sidewinders, which leaves 4.5 seconds, which is plenty to get the rest off.
You can exchange any of the aimed shots for barrage should it come off cooldown.
A LnL proc means you can often get an extra Aimed Shot into a vulnerable window.
The last Aimed Shot is not always possible, depends a bit on whether or not you got LnL procs, if you used barrage and how much focus you started the cycle with.

The only real issue with this rotation is that sometimes you get 3 procs of Marking Targets during this sequence so that you can roll right into the next vulnerable sequence, and sometimes you get no proc for like 15 seconds and you have to "waste" a sidewinder proc just to prevent you from capping sidewinder stacks.
Another thing is that not having aimed shot usable on the move makes this spec feel more rigid; but it's not too bad once you get used to it. WoD also had it's moment where you played survival with focusing shot in HM and this feels very similar. (Plus a good hunter will work around it if he knows movement is coming up).

I'm not saying this rotation has 0 downtime (like I mentioned, sometimes you're at 0-1 sidewinder stacks and you're waiting for a marking targets proc); but it's not all that bad. In fact I might even prefer this over the old rotation, because it feels like the skill ceiling is a bit higher in regards to using your sidewinder charges correctly.

- - - Updated - - -

Did BM ever require any form of skill to perform well?Really? The rotation was always pretty damn stupid and straightforward

It was; but it had some caveats. There was Focus Fire; there was a bit more timing involved in BW.
Cobra shot wasn't anything spectecular in WoD; but you could mess it up. A bad hunter with 40 focus would cast Arcane Shot right 2 seconds before KC came off cooldown, a good hunter would cast Cobra Shot; A bad hunter would pop Focus Fire the moment it came available, a better hunter would at least check the remaining CD of BW to make sure it wasn't better to hold onto it for a few seconds.

It's little things, but the damage feels low. The effect of the hunter feels a lot more insignificant. The cooldowns feel worse than they were before. I mean just the fact that the WoD Bestial Wrath reduced focus cost by 50% made it feel like you were going ham. I know that's part of a legendary in legion, but are they really that much out of new ideas that they have to dismember the entire spec and then add them back through gimmicky items?

Let me be clear.
The skill floor of BM hunter was never really high; in fact it was and still is one of the easiest specs in the entire game. And even that has been dumbed down in legion to make it EVEN EASIER. And it's fine.
But WHY would you also lower the skill ceiling of this spec? Why this design decision to remove dimension this spec had. There is no reason to make the skill ceiling lower.

We're practically going back to the TBC Macro era where you just spammed one button because of retarded auto shot mechanics.

[Sarkol]

They fucked up with the overall class design. They made it so that we are limited by a resource and not by the gcd, which is what we were limited by before. When you are limited by a resource you get downtime. Personally I am fine with that. Problem is is that they didn't give us anything to think about what to do with our limited resource. Ferals used to have to decide to rake, ferocious bite, or re-up savage roar. The wrong choice hurt your dps. We don't have a choice. We build to nothing. We just wait for the buttons to be able to get hit again.

The specs needed something to maintain. Something that made us think about our resource and if we will have enough to do x when we need to because if we didn't have enough we hurt our dps. Instead we just mindlessly hit the buttons because we have nothing to worry about.

There is more thinking in the MM rotation than ever before, at least according to Azortharion. Besides, PVE Hunters have been shit for years imo. Fun in PVP, but utterly shit in PVE, mostly due to the fact you were always spamming steady/cobra. I have no idea how people found that fun, but that's how it is. People like different things.