[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

Lots of people here mention Essence Font, which I find weird because i checked some of Suplift his HFC mythic logs and he doesn't use EF, or maybe one or twice max per boss.

Because Vivify and Env are much stronger as long as Extended Life exists. It will change with Legion, trust me.

Following all the RT vs MT vs FT discussion here - I get that for lower hps and better mana management, Rising thunder may be good for raids, but in Mythic+ dungeons, is it even sustainable? I mean, in the videos I have seen there was really little time for the healer to do anything else than heal. Maybe the method of standing in melee and just occasionally pressing RSK for the reset would work...

I do not recommend RT für Mythic+. With heavy trashpull you will heal the shit out of your tank and don't find a single GCD for a RSK. And mana burns away, so Mana Tea is a good way to go for +6 and higher.

On the other hand, you guys also assume, that someone will use every single TFT on Vivify, and that's just as unlikely.

Exactly, it would be just bad to play this way. Really bad.

[Deleted]

I want to know what they are thinking with the statue talent, its borderline useless? Why not make is so it channels soothing mist for the duration instead of only when monk is channelling.. I'd possibly find a use for it then

[Floopa]

Yeah the statue nerf was very weird. even without the nerf it was worse than chi-ji in the majority of situations.

idk maybe a change with pvp in mind? seems unlikely tho

[lycrates]

Why would you not hit mana tea on cd?

The problem I have with mana tea is that even if you cast it on CD, can you really expect to have the opportunity to stand still and spam for 10 seconds? TFT does not have that restriction. Well, maybe raids in Legion do not require a lot of movement at which point Mana Tea would unquestionably be better.

[Supliftz]

I do not recommend RT für Mythic+. With heavy trashpull you will heal the shit out of your tank and don't find a single GCD for a RSK. And mana burns away, so Mana Tea is a good way to go for +6 and higher.

Mana Tea is worse than FT for mythic + tiers where you're pushing the limit of your ilvl. You're limited by gcds rather than mana on basically everything besides tyrannical bosses, and even then ft vs mana tea mana sustain is close enough.

RT is good if you're farming lower end keys (which you should be as much as possible), because it allows you to spend more gcds dpsing on bosses.

[Deleted]

Mana Tea is worse than FT for mythic + tiers where you're pushing the limit of your ilvl. You're limited by gcds rather than mana on basically everything besides tyrannical bosses, and even then ft vs mana tea mana sustain is close enough.

RT is good if you're farming lower end keys (which you should be as much as possible), because it allows you to spend more gcds dpsing on bosses.

That might be true. Maybe I was too undergeared (did +6 with 848) and I was really glad to have Mana Tea.

[lcs]

Why would you not hit mana tea on cd?

You can definitely hit the button on cooldown. The point I was trying to make is it that it is unlikely that exactly every 90 seconds you will be able to hit 8 vivifies and have them all be effective, with no mechanics interrupting, and everybody needing the full healing of all 8 vivifies.

The TFT examples have the same issues. It is very unlikely that you will be hitting TFT exactly on cooldown every 30 seconds like clockwork. There may be cases where you want to save it for a small while for an upcoming event.

Its almost like encounter mechanics and other situational details are going to change what the best talent choice will be and that there may not be one talent that is superior to the others in all cases.

But that would be crazy.

[Grofu]

This doesn't seem correct for FT vs mana tea mana wise. I have 20% haste, which gives me 8 casts under mana tea, so lets go with that. Casting vivify 8 times is 4.5x8/2 = 18% mana saved every 90 seconds.

FT gives me 3 extra tft vivifies per 90 seconds, which gives mand 4.5x3= 13.5% mana saved every 90 seconds.

So no, mana tea is the superior talent for mana sustain at 110.

Your math looks the same as mine, just expressed with percentages instead of fixed (L100) numbers. I don't disagree with your conclusion based on the math. My reason for picking FT>MT is convenience and the normal human tendency to save 1.5m CDs for heavy damage periods.

In short, I agree with you, but will probably use FT anyway.

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On the other hand, you guys also assume, that someone will use every single TFT on Vivify, and that's just as unlikely.

Well that's what I've been doing in these first two weeks, but I think it's a fair point. You're also not going to use Vivify if there's no raid damage. Accurately stated, Mana Tea, when used, is always going to produce better savings than Focused Thunder.

I like these trade-offs; it's good that they've set it up this way, IMO.

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You can definitely hit the button on cooldown. The point I was trying to make is it that it is unlikely that exactly every 90 seconds you will be able to hit 8 vivifies and have them all be effective, with no mechanics interrupting, and everybody needing the full healing of all 8 vivifies.

A very good points as well, IMO. 8 effective vivifies in a row seems quite unlikely, at least in the current environment.

Put another way, I know I can double-tap TFT every 30 seconds and do something relevant with it. But I can't hit guarantee that I can use Mana Tea every 90 seconds effectively. This reduces the effectiveness of Mana Tea and raises the applicability of Focused Thunder.

But I'm keeping an open mind here, as we go into Legion. I didn't play beta, and I have no idea what we'll be doing at 110.

[Deleted]

Imo focused tea plays the best of the 100 talents for me. Used it both in raid testing and in 5 mans on the beta. Really like the flexibility of the tea with 2 charges.

Something that isnt to obvious is if you tea enveloping mist you gain 1 global worth of soothing mist without losing hps o global cooldowns. 3 ticks for free.

[meob]

For Legion, I want to do keystone dungeons with a druid friend. The way specs will probably work, would it make sense to bring a MW over resto, or what are better uses for those classes in M+ content? Does it change majorly from dungeon to dungeon?

[lcs]

For Legion, I want to do keystone dungeons with a druid friend. The way specs will probably work, would it make sense to bring a MW over resto, or what are better uses for those classes in M+ content? Does it change majorly from dungeon to dungeon?

Resto Druids are widely considered to be the best healers for Mythic+ dungeons at the moment.

However, the gap between Druids and the rest of the healers is not so insurmountable that other healers can't complete the content (they can, all of them). Resto druids just have an edge with Battle res, their mastery scaling and ironbark.

The gap is probably around the level of if you had to choose between equally skilled and geared players you would pick the druid, but if the non-druid healer is a good player or has better gear and the druid is mediocre or has worse gear, you would pick the non-druid.

[Deleted]

Resto druids advantech comes mostly from that combat res and the low cd tank cooldown.

[JonnyBeoulve]

Sheilun's Gift is broken for me on the Beta. I can't get any Mist to spawn.

[Deleted]

Need to be in combat to spawn the clouds

[lcs]

Sheilun's Gift is broken for me on the Beta. I can't get any Mist to spawn.

Working for me. Are you in combat? They'll never spawn out of combat, even if you're healing.

[Geodew]

Quick question if someone knows: What saves (or can save) more mana in general? Mana tea every about 90 seconds or using the extra charge from the TFT talent to cast a free Vivify about every 30 seconds?

See Talents tab. I'm surprised no one knew/remembered/mentioned that I've already done the math for it TBH.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=903872644

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the normal human tendency to save 1.5m CDs for heavy damage periods..

If it were a throughput cooldown, sure, but it's not. Mana Tide Totem was always used on cd, for example. Similarly, you'd use Mana Tea at the first opportunity of even moderate AoE healing and just take the opportunity to heal very efficiently, giving your other healers a mana break.

[Myta]

See Talents tab. I'm surprised no one knew/remembered/mentioned that I've already done the math for it TBH.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=903872644

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If it were a throughput cooldown, sure, but it's not. Mana Tide Totem was always used on cd, for example. Similarly, you'd use Mana Tea at the first opportunity of even moderate AoE healing and just take the opportunity to heal very efficiently, giving your other healers a mana break.

That's really different, because the mana you gained for Mana Tide was always useful, you could use it in periods of downtime and bank that extra mana for when you need it. Mana Tea is only good when it's cooldown lines up very well with certain mechanics in a fight, otherwise the return you gain is in my opinion too low to even be beneficial. Too many fights where it's up and you're just Fistweaving, if you use it just to use it, and cast heavy cost spells when you don't need to you're overall losing mana over the course of the fight, and it's not up when you do actually need it.

[Desma]

Put another way, I know I can double-tap TFT every 30 seconds and do something relevant with it. But I can't hit guarantee that I can use Mana Tea every 90 seconds effectively. This reduces the effectiveness of Mana Tea and raises the applicability of Focused Thunder.

I mean, I'm not sure if you even have to use the Mana Tea to it's fullest potential to make it really good. Only the fact that it is really strong makes it worth looking at. With t18 4-set FT is a bit more valuable, but I still personally prefer Mana Tea in most situations.

I think the build to go for at level 110 is the RT-build with Legendary pants? I'm not sure if this has changed or not.

[xdmemes]

That's really different, because the mana you gained for Mana Tide was always useful, you could use it in periods of downtime and bank that extra mana for when you need it. Mana Tea is only good when it's cooldown lines up very well with certain mechanics in a fight, otherwise the return you gain is in my opinion too low to even be beneficial. Too many fights where it's up and you're just Fistweaving, if you use it just to use it, and cast heavy cost spells when you don't need to you're overall losing mana over the course of the fight, and it's not up when you do actually need it.

Pretty much this. Mana Tide and Mana Tea are not apt comparisons what so ever.

[Supliftz]

I just don't understand why you would talent focused thunder only to spam vivify on cd. The talent makes more sense if you're spamming tft rem on cd.