[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[cqwrteur]

if MWs not being represented in world first kills makes them unplayable for you, you are free to reroll shaman/paladin like I tried to do, but at the end of the day (imo) an average shaman/paladin is a bigger detriment to the raid than a really good MW

Over 95% mw are not REALLY GOOD, so they should all reroll.

[lycrates]

... and there are 20 out of 20 guilds that have rsham and hpala.

If there are really only 4 of the top 20 guilds that use MWs, I have to agree thats pretty terrible. It does not have to be 0 MWs before agreeing that there is a problem.

[EVB]

If there are really only 4 of the top 20 guilds that use MWs, I have to agree thats pretty terrible. It does not have to be 0 MWs before agreeing that there is a problem.

4 out of 20 actually HAVE mw. "Using" it only on 4/5-healer bosses as last slot.

[Deleted]

dont think the existence of a problem is contentious, rather the extent or relevance of it

[Deleted]

How many of you whiners and comparers play for world first? Or even play in world top 20? I will bluntly assume none does and not one did before. Hence I support the question stated here before: how is that relevant to you?
What is the point in whining pages after pages about top 20 here?
I wrote this in another topic about BRM before: people who excel at their class/spec are not the ones who whine about it. These two things do NOT go together. Also - whiners don't make it to world first or top 20, because attitude is more important there than anything else.
No whining is productive. If you're bitter, disgruntled, unhappy - play something else. It's not like anyone is forcing you to play stuff you don't like, or?

[Ryanite]

How many of you whiners and comparers play for world first? Or even play in world top 20? I will bluntly assume none does and not one did before. Hence I support the question stated here before: how is that relevant to you?
What is the point in whining pages after pages about top 20 here?
I wrote this in another topic about BRM before: people who excel at their class/spec are not the ones who whine about it. These two things do NOT go together. Also - whiners don't make it to world first or top 20, because attitude is more important there than anything else.
No whining is productive. If you're bitter, disgruntled, unhappy - play something else. It's not like anyone is forcing you to play stuff you don't like, or?

While i do believe that you shouldn't look too deep into what the top 20 have and take it personally but it does provide a decent indicator of what they feel is best for the encounter at hand since they generally have access to everysingle class and spec. So a 'proffesional opinon' is valid and may reflect concerns people have with a spec as a whole. Of course as you move down the list the relevance of the professional opinion decreases but I wouldn't say that no whining is productive.

Time and time again the forums have proven that if you can whine loud enough for long enough your issues will be addressed and Legion introduced many cases in which if a small change here was made or a talent there was made baseline the entire spec would become more fun to play. I feel these obvious flaws are what really gets people going. For MW from my perspective is that the current raid set up does not utalise mastery and there for loses a lot of the specs 'rotation' in favor of spaming a single ability while the mana costs only compound this problem making essense font the goto. Not to mention effuse essentially being a soothing mist activate button while soothing mist it'self has lost all interaction with the 'rotation' and blizzard opting to be rid of fistweaving yet shoving in talents to benefit it's playstyle all while promting MW's movement over raid utility leaving them god like in PvP and poor in comparison in PvE.

Going from WoD MW to Legion MW I can understand why people may be bitter and disgruntled. I do agree though that if people truely don't like a way a spec has turned out but the majority do then they may need to look else where. Take WW for example where the majority and myself included think that for the most part what has come of Legion's WW is a shining gem in what change can bring but if you'd ask me about MW I'd say the above paragraph and tell you I no longer actively play it. MW just doesn't seem to work with it's own abilities many things to me just don't make sense.

In short Legion introduced in many cases where a spec almost felt amazing to play a primary example of this would be Fury warrior where if massacre and inner rage were baseline it would be amazing or if the problems with WW's SEF and Serenity didn't exsist it would be amazing but sadly MW is just not one of these, it's just bad.

[EVB]

How many of you whiners and comparers play for world first? Or even play in world top 20? I will bluntly assume none does and not one did before. Hence I support the question stated here before: how is that relevant to you?
What is the point in whining pages after pages about top 20 here?
I wrote this in another topic about BRM before: people who excel at their class/spec are not the ones who whine about it. These two things do NOT go together. Also - whiners don't make it to world first or top 20, because attitude is more important there than anything else.
No whining is productive. If you're bitter, disgruntled, unhappy - play something else. It's not like anyone is forcing you to play stuff you don't like, or?

I play in top 10.

Show me atleast 1 (one) "excelling" MW, please. Ple-e-e-ase?

Massive whining is ALWAYS productive. Look at warlock buffs at the start of legion, SP nerf revert before mythic week of EN, every single fckn rogue/mage/etc nerf reverts.
Too bad mw is the least represented healer so nobody spams devs twitter with whining.

And you are not the thing to tell me what to play, reroll or anything. I do what I want, not what you think I should do. Your post is pure crap telling "nah, you're retards who whine, go reroll lul". Please go back to your BRM thread.

[Deleted]

I play in top 10.

Show me atleast 1 (one) "excelling" MW, please. Ple-e-e-ase?

Massive whining is ALWAYS productive. Look at warlock buffs at the start of legion, SP nerf revert before mythic week of EN, every single fckn rogue/mage/etc nerf reverts.
Too bad mw is the least represented healer so nobody spams devs twitter with whining.

And you are not the thing to tell me what to play, reroll or anything. I do what I want, not what you think I should do. Your post is pure crap telling "nah, you're retards who whine, go reroll lul". Please go back to your BRM thread.

Do you though? Just trolling, but on topic, I do agree with points here and there. We're pretty unrepresented across the board for all specs as a monk.

I think "whining" as a primary dps class generally will get noticed as always, look at mage/lock/rogue/hunter for instance, any issue they've had normally has a quick turn around, they are heavily populated and have one role.

Enter the monk, we have 3 roles and there is "issues" (depending on who you are) in all specs but is it manageable? yes, do people bring them on progress? yes. Perhaps not every fight like you would as a druid/paladin (healing perspective) but they aren't in a wasteland of needing to re-roll.

In fact i'm playing this game and raiding at high end since vanilla and i've never re-rolled due to a class issue, i've changed characters but normally at expac launch as I want something new.

Long story short, stop slinging muck at each other and if you want change (See the SEF change WW's managed to get) take to the official forums and not here, make a constructive post outlining the issues/concerns you have and then get the MMO-Champ community onboard to get traction.

My two cent (back to the BrM threads I go)

[Deleted]

I didn't mention any reroll, did I? I didn't call anyone a retard, did I?

If you consider whining a valid tactic to get boosts, may I point out that you mentioned yourself, that FIRST you need some presence of whiners. You will not get any presence of whiners by whining yourself, or will you? How does whiner logic work - I'm new to this reasoning, so feel free to teach me.
If I am in the right though, would it not be more logical to help each other overcome issues we can see with our class here and recruit more new monks into the bunch first? Would it not be more obvious to Blizz if they saw a statistic decline in monk numbers compared to other classes/game developments/tier intros/etc.?

I tend to stop playing things (games, specs, genres) that piss me off and never stop wondering why other people end up forcing themselves into situations they don't like.

Also: goo.gl/tmfn3z

[Delek]

I tend to stop playing things (games, specs, genres) that piss me off and never stop wondering why other people end up forcing themselves into situations they don't like.

I wish it was that easy
How do you expect someone to reroll to another healer, get all the AP, legendaries & gear in any reasonable amount of time? There is a lot of people that like to run difficult content, yet don't have a lot of time to invest into the game outside of their main character with the intense amount of grinding that is necessary to stay relevant.

EDIT:
I've personally been quite disappointed with how MW have turned out when compared to WoD. Sure, we were probably a bit too strong with the HFC 4set and that might skew my already rose-tinted glasses BUT losing all the resources we had to manage (Chi, Mana Tea, Mana, ReM) and the amazing Extend Life + Uplift interaction for strong spot healing really hurts. The removal of fistweaving (or the total failure of making it competitive) also hurt the class a lot, at least the way I liked to play it.

Also, it seems like they didn't put a lot of thought into the MW toolkit, in particular in regards with how it interacts with secondary stats.
Multistrike gave us chances of not triggering the CD on ReM, crit gave us more mana tea, haste reduced the CD of a lot of abilities (yes it still does for RSK, but please, don't start talking about fistweaving.)

Anyway, there's a lot of threads describing our issues way more eloquently that I ever could, but I think you get the point.

[Deleted]

I wish it was that easy
How do you expect someone to reroll to another healer, get all the AP, legendaries & gear in any reasonable amount of time? There is a lot of people that like to run difficult content, yet don't have a lot of time to invest into the game outside of their main character with the intense amount of grinding that is necessary to stay relevant.

Definitely made more difficult this expansion, no question about it. I just don't believe MW's are in a place where you need to re-roll, they may not be as viable as other healers for certain progression bosses but what spec is? there is a reason high end use stacked comps for fights.

[Deleted]

I wish it was that easy
How do you expect someone to reroll to another healer, get all the AP, legendaries & gear in any reasonable amount of time? There is a lot of people that like to run difficult content, yet don't have a lot of time to invest into the game outside of their main character with the intense amount of grinding that is necessary to stay relevant.

1 year ago I quit a game I played since '97. My main had 600 days played there. I failed a lot of things in life due to that game. It's now gone from my life. Easier than I thought really.
As on rerolling - a guy in my guild came back recently (he dinged 110 with 7.1.5) with a fresh mage (you know - pure dps - the stuff that has a harder time finding m+ teams). He is already outperforming many other dps in the guild's raid team (it's not a world top achievement, considering we're filthy social-casuals, but still). At the same time I have seen people getting plenty legendaries right and left when playing enough content (i.e. run enough m+) and I am an alto-holic so I know it's super easy to get your weapon to 35 traits in 7.1.5.

I didn't suggest to reroll in the first place though. Maybe just a change in expectations and own approach can do? It does for me quite often, for example when I miss deathgrip or avenger's shield on my monk ... and then I play my DK and pala for a moment and realize why I don't miss these two spells after all

[Buildapanda]

If I am in the right though, would it not be more logical to help each other overcome issues we can see with our class here and recruit more new monks into the bunch first? Would it not be more obvious to Blizz if they saw a statistic decline in monk numbers compared to other classes/game developments/tier intros/etc.?

No, beccause most wow players are so god damn selfish they would call for other classes to be nerfed and hurt the progression of their guild because someone did more dps than them.

[cqwrteur]

mistweaver --- a lol joke spec. Especially in dungeons.

- - - Updated - - -

I've personally been quite disappointed with how MW have turned out when compared to WoD. Sure, we were probably a bit too strong with the HFC 4set and that might skew my already rose-tinted glasses BUT losing all the resources we had to manage (Chi, Mana Tea, Mana, ReM) and the amazing Extend Life + Uplift interaction for strong spot healing really hurts. The removal of fistweaving (or the total failure of making it competitive) also hurt the class a lot, at least the way I liked to play it.

I think it is a big misunderstanding among community that uplift was strong. However, it sucked, due to low HPS/HPM.

With the remove of Chi and MT, people need to realize that most of our spells are undertuned, both in the past and present. That was why mistweaver needs a meme tier like extend life to be viable.

- - - Updated - - -

Mistweaver in arena is not strong either. The argument that mistweaver sucks at PVE due to op at PVP is just fake.

http://i.imgur.com/IISOdic.png
http://i.imgur.com/sIwClW3.png

[Deleted]

ssdn

Is there any reason why you keep posting your ssdn over and over again here, even after being repeatedly banned? Like ... any, other than trolling?

[Grofu]

QQ

Meanwhile, in the 75th percentile....

[Spotnick]

if MWs not being represented in world first kills makes them unplayable for you, you are free to reroll shaman/paladin like I tried to do, but at the end of the day (imo) an average shaman/paladin is a bigger detriment to the raid than a really good MW

Yup, same goes for *cough* resto druid.

Why did I do that /facepalm

- - - Updated - - -

How many of you whiners and comparers play for world first? Or even play in world top 20? I will bluntly assume none does and not one did before. Hence I support the question stated here before: how is that relevant to you?
What is the point in whining pages after pages about top 20 here?
I wrote this in another topic about BRM before: people who excel at their class/spec are not the ones who whine about it. These two things do NOT go together. Also - whiners don't make it to world first or top 20, because attitude is more important there than anything else.
No whining is productive. If you're bitter, disgruntled, unhappy - play something else. It's not like anyone is forcing you to play stuff you don't like, or?

I used to be in a top 20 guild before (if you really want to check, I was in Razzia which was US6 in SoO), and I can say that mistweavers bring absolutely nothing to mythic progression at the moment. The only useful thing is leg sweep and well, other classes can cover that.

Right now I swapped on a resto druid because we had none and it was more useful than my monk, having Tranquility every 2 minutes is a game changer.

There isn't any "game changing" ability with monks.. in 7.2 the trait to reduce Revival might help.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile, in the 75th percentile....

Ohh yeah, i forgot, raw HPS is a clean way to know exactly how good a healer is on a fight.

[Deleted]

considering mw does nothing but that

[Tiphess]

Meanwhile, in the 75th percentile....

I don't want by any means to defend a moron like the one you quoted, but the 75th percentile is just bad, in terms of raw hps.

Anyway, we shouldn't use healers rankings to know which spec is the better, as there are countless of idiots that has their guild cater to them to give them their big parses. As well as many other scenarios (group comp, healer dying mid fight, etc.) that makes the logs have.. "untrusty" results?