[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Supliftz]

>Blizzard makes a mastery that encourages spell selection because mw used to not care about spell selection

>that mastery is bad because of shit design

>players come up with a solution

>make the mastery better for raid healing spells, completely ignoring the purpose of the mastery

>mfw

[cqwrteur]

>Blizzard makes a mastery that encourages spell selection because mw used to not care about spell selection

>that mastery is bad because of shit design

>players come up with a solution

>make the mastery better for raid healing spells, completely ignoring the purpose of the mastery

>mfw

a stat should never encourage any kind of spell selection or it is a bad stat since there is no way to balance it well.

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Mastery is actually the best stat for every spell it effects by a large margin actually (save boots non/ut vivify ofc lol). The problem occurs when ef/chi burst/revival/other bs are like 50% of your output. Then mastery is pretty bad. It's clearly not balanced around only effecting 50% of your output.

"The problem occurs when ef/chi burst/revival/other bs are like 50% of your output. "

wrong. This is dynamic. not just ef/cb/revival. you need adjust this mastery every tier since every tier number was tuned differently. How could you balance it with every tier? pointless efforts. completely nonsense

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Mastery is actually the best stat for every spell it effects by a large margin actually (save boots non/ut vivify ofc lol). The problem occurs when ef/chi burst/revival/other bs are like 50% of your output. Then mastery is pretty bad. It's clearly not balanced around only effecting 50% of your output.

no. only effuse and vivfy w/o UT

[Spotnick]

it's at a point where mastery needs another redesign because there's no actual way of fixing the above issue. unless of course they turn mastery into an echo of light copy but that's both boring and not really "what MW is about". honestly lost for ideas myself and gusts of mist, as is, just cannot work.

Well, they kind of "had" what our mastery should have been... Multistrike.

I'd say Cleave, but maybe that would be too good.

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Realistically there's nothing wrong with the design of Mastery. In fact, it's even quite strong for progression bosses providing it has good numbers (like it does currently). The issue was blizzard didn't force the "correct playstyle" of Mistweaver effectively in the base toolkit. Disc Priests have a mastery which only effects >75% of the output, and the mastery for disc is fine. Holy Paladins have a situational mastery, and that's still completely fine.

Is there even a "correct" playstyle? You check logs and nobody in the top 10 is doing the same thing. Maybe that's a great thing, but some have Vivify as top heal, some have Essence Font, and some have Renewing Mist..

Seems there are more than one atm.

[cqwrteur]

Well, they kind of "had" what our mastery should have been... Multistrike.

I'd say Cleave, but maybe that would be too good.

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Is there even a "correct" playstyle? You check logs and nobody in the top 10 is doing the same thing. Maybe that's a great thing, but some have Vivify as top heal, some have Essence Font, and some have Renewing Mist..

Seems there are more than one atm.

if mastery isn't bad, ppl would never use vivify in raids.

[Spotnick]

Oh btw, Druid Mastery isn't that much better than Mistweaver mastery, in fact it's counter intuitive... it forces you to stack hots on targets rather than heal the most injured all the time. It took me forever to fight the habit of putting rejuv on everybody and stick to wild growth/spring blossoms targets in prority.. not going to say it's a great design, but the previous version was simply to keep a buff up.

So yes, it does forces you in a play style if you want to do well. It's also the worst spell for resto druids.. and good in 5 man, same as mistweaver.

So having bad mastery (if it even is) is not a problem, the problem is having 2 stats useless.. if Haste was better, we'd have probably less problems..

[doozer]

Maybe they could make the HoT portion of Essence Font and Revival dependent on Mastery. e.g. for Essence font, it heals for Mastery amount over 6 sec, rather than the current interaction. And maybe buff Revival HoT trait to include mastery too since it could probably use a slight boost anyway.

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Oh btw, Druid Mastery isn't that much better than Mistweaver mastery, in fact it's counter intuitive... it forces you to stack hots on targets rather than heal the most injured all the time. It took me forever to fight the habit of putting rejuv on everybody and stick to wild growth/spring blossoms targets in prority.. not going to say it's a great design, but the previous version was simply to keep a buff up.

So yes, it does forces you in a play style if you want to do well. It's also the worst spell for resto druids.. and good in 5 man, same as mistweaver.

So having bad mastery (if it even is) is not a problem, the problem is having 2 stats useless.. if Haste was better, we'd have probably less problems..

Totally agree. At least buff MW so that HPS throughput is competitive since Druid brings high throughput and utility.

[cqwrteur]

Maybe they could make the HoT portion of Essence Font and Revival dependent on Mastery. e.g. for Essence font, it heals for Mastery amount over 6 sec, rather than the current interaction. And maybe buff Revival HoT trait to include mastery too since it could probably use a slight boost anyway.

GotS


Please don't make mastery more complex.

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Oh btw, Druid Mastery isn't that much better than Mistweaver mastery, in fact it's counter intuitive... it forces you to stack hots on targets rather than heal the most injured all the time. It took me forever to fight the habit of putting rejuv on everybody and stick to wild growth/spring blossoms targets in prority.. not going to say it's a great design, but the previous version was simply to keep a buff up.

So yes, it does forces you in a play style if you want to do well. It's also the worst spell for resto druids.. and good in 5 man, same as mistweaver.

So having bad mastery (if it even is) is not a problem, the problem is having 2 stats useless.. if Haste was better, we'd have probably less problems..

at least mastery of druid increases a certain class of spells instead of certain spells like mw. EFFUSE SPAMMING

[Myta]

Again, when I say buff mastery, people take what I say hyper literally and ignore current state of content, Mistweavers etc. When I say 'buff mastery' I don't mean, 'Buff mastery's rating per stat' I mean, buff the effectiveness of Mastery as currently the NET effectiveness of mastery for Mistweavers is pretty much zero percent. There are many ways you can buff mastery that don't involve changing the rating.

Another misnomer is that when I say 'buff Mastery' I don't mean to the point where a Effuse heals for a 150 trillion. C'mon, common sense people.

[Deleted]

Well, they kind of "had" what our mastery should have been... Multistrike.

I'd say Cleave, but maybe that would be too good.

like a chance to hit an additional target with healing spells?

[cqwrteur]

Again, when I say buff mastery, people take what I say hyper literally and ignore current state of content, Mistweavers etc. When I say 'buff mastery' I don't mean, 'Buff mastery's rating per stat' I mean, buff the effectiveness of Mastery as currently the effectiveness of mastery for Mistweavers is pretty much zero percent. There are many ways you can buff mastery that don't involve changing the rating.

Another misnomer is that when I say 'buff Mastery' I don't mean to the point where a Effuse heals for a 150 trillion. C'mon, common sense people.

gust of mist sucks. we need another wave of mastery revamp.

gots wouldn't be bad if they just put a dynamic spawn rate on orbs instead of a static spawn rate table.

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LOL. Lore uses lifecycles in m+. LOLOLOL.
He also cant remember the name of mistwrap. LOLOLOL

He is a liar confirmed

[Spotnick]

at least mastery of druid increases a certain class of spells instead of certain spells like mw. EFFUSE SPAMMING

Not sure how it's different.. druid mastery affects all healing over time spells, mistweaver mastery affects all single target spells.

Pretty sure we all know now that they screwed up because we use a lot more aoe spells they expected us to.

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like a chance to hit an additional target with healing spells?

Yup.. which is pretty much what Vivify does already.

Multistrike was a 2nd crit, that's why it was removed.. but our mastery is just another versatility, without the damage reduction.

But cleave is just extra targets. Remember that Thok trinket?



Of course the obvious issue of Vivify

that that was the original multistrike trinket:

[cqwrteur]

mistweaver mastery affects all single target spells.

that is simply false. healing elixir, soom, mistwalk etc

Pretty sure we all know now that they screwed up because we use a lot more aoe spells they expected us to.

we are not tank healer. We don't need single target heal spells in raid. maybe they should exchange mw mastery with pal.

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but our mastery is just another versatility, without the damage reduction.

false. just gots w/o orbs

gots vs gust of mists

[Taygai]

Chiming in here. I've been playing mistweaver since day 1 of MoP. Was level 90 the first week of MoP. Mastery now is much better than it was then. I remember looking up guides when doing heroics, nobody knew at the time what our best stat was, there was discussion about haste, crit wasn't even a though, but people experimented with mastery and it seemed to do well. So I went with mastery for the first couple of weeks. So.Many.Orbs. I'm grateful our mastery has changed, I actually really like that they took the tier 18 set bonus and made it baked in. The problem lies that the set bonus was good because how mistweaver played in WoD. Cover raid in renewing mist, prep for big raid burst damage or consistent raid damage, and uplift as needed. This net usually about almost as much healing as uplift in certain situations and I really valued that set bonus.

The problem now lies that the class has changed away from what it was, so our mastery was good for the play style back in WoD, but it sucks now because they changed it. I'm not saying orbs would be better for legion, but it was one of those things...why fix something that isn't broken? This is actually what pushed me away from mistweaver in legion. They lost their identity to me, and yet blizzard wanted to give every spec an identity. They already had one...

With this current stage, I think blizzard needs to revert mistweaver back to what it was in MoP or WoD playstyle, but keep the mastery. Then it will be very effective. As of right now, the spec is very clunky, and mastery is just extra free healing, but it's not super effective. Holy mastery has been the same since cataclysm, why can't we have consistency like that. Blizzard knew holy mastery wasn't broken, so they didn't fix it. Again, back to MW playstyle, why fix what isn't broken.

I'm going in loops here. I'm salty about 7.0 mistweaver. I'll never forgive them for breaking my favorite spec in the entire game since 2005.

[cqwrteur]

Chiming in here. I've been playing mistweaver since day 1 of MoP. Was level 90 the first week of MoP. Mastery now is much better than it was then. I remember looking up guides when doing heroics, nobody knew at the time what our best stat was, there was discussion about haste, crit wasn't even a though, but people experimented with mastery and it seemed to do well. So I went with mastery for the first couple of weeks. So.Many.Orbs. I'm grateful our mastery has changed, I actually really like that they took the tier 18 set bonus and made it baked in. The problem lies that the set bonus was good because how mistweaver played in WoD. Cover raid in renewing mist, prep for big raid burst damage or consistent raid damage, and uplift as needed. This net usually about almost as much healing as uplift in certain situations and I really valued that set bonus.

The problem now lies that the class has changed away from what it was, so our mastery was good for the play style back in WoD, but it sucks now because they changed it. I'm not saying orbs would be better for legion, but it was one of those things...why fix something that isn't broken? This is actually what pushed me away from mistweaver in legion. They lost their identity to me, and yet blizzard wanted to give every spec an identity. They already had one...

With this current stage, I think blizzard needs to revert mistweaver back to what it was in MoP or WoD playstyle, but keep the mastery. Then it will be very effective. As of right now, the spec is very clunky, and mastery is just extra free healing, but it's not super effective. Holy mastery has been the same since cataclysm, why can't we have consistency like that. Blizzard knew holy mastery wasn't broken, so they didn't fix it. Again, back to MW playstyle, why fix what isn't broken.

I'm going in loops here. I'm salty about 7.0 mistweaver. I'll never forgive them for breaking my favorite spec in the entire game since 2005.

because gots was bugged. ppl and devs are dumb

[Taygai]

because gots was bugged. ppl and devs are dumb

Referring to the start of MoP or why the mastery was changed?

[cqwrteur]

gots was designed to decrease the overhealing of mw. it was sad since they put a static spawn table to fuck out this mastery.

[Spotnick]

that is simply false. healing elixir, soom, mistwalk etc

Well, you can't cast Soothing Mist, it's just a bonus to ST heals, mistwalk and healing elixir though, I really don't see a reason why not.

we are not tank healer. We don't need single target heal spells in raid. maybe they should exchange mw mastery with pal.

Every healer can tank heal, Mistweavers are good at it despite the fact that Enveloping Mist is too short IMO. Yes, paladins have beacon that gives them an advantage.

false. just gots w/o orbs

GoTS had no version that was good except when they gave it an absorb. Even with orb explosions if you were not in range of the orbs it did nothing, at least our current mastery always does something.

GoTS was a glorified Lightwell.

[cqwrteur]

Referring to the start of MoP or why the mastery was changed?

GotS was bugged since the beginning of mop. if multiple ppl stand on the same point where the orbs was spawned, everyone on that point would get heal.

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GoTS had no version that was good except when they gave it an absorb. Even with orb explosions if you were not in range of the orbs it did nothing, at least our current mastery always does something.

GoTS was a glorified Lightwell.

simply nonsense. gots also did something great which decreases our overhealing. it wasn't lightwell
Gust of Mists did horrible thing which fucked out mw in dungeons.

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Every healer can tank heal, Mistweavers are good at it despite the fact that Enveloping Mist is too short IMO. Yes, paladins have beacon that gives them an advantage.

Paladins are designed to be tank healer. it is not advantage. one raid spot was locked to them. if you don't bring a hpal, you are doing the wrong thing.

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Gift of the Serpent

casts:108
hits:165
pick rate: 165/108 = 155.56% > 100%
overhealing: 0% <<<< 19.95% in the whole fight
amount: 4.66%
GotS was just bugged and undertuned.

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http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...ated-feedback/

4) This is a great example of psychological impacts of tuning in game design. Because Mastery has been weak in the past, it has to be overpowered before some people will like it. We're not planning to do that. No, it is not tuned around expecting your raiders to go out of their way to take advantage of it; that's just a strawman. Everything we're seeing from actual data indicates that it is effective. Only a small fraction of it ever gets truly wasted now, and that's offset by the fact that does less overhealing than average.

Celestalon was right and my C++ simulation also shows that result.

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Please read : mw mastery workbook again.

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They should use a dynamic spawn scalar like this, and that would fix gots:

Gift of the serpent
You have a mastery% * (spell sp%/75%) chance when you heal to summon a Healing Sphere nearby an injured ally for 30 sec. Allies who walk through the sphere will be healed for 75% sp.

If the Healing Sphere expires before being used, a nearby ally within 12 yards of the sphere will be healed.

for example. if you have 20% of mastery, you use a spell which is 1000%sp healing, the chance will be 20% * 1000/75 = 266.67% to spawn a sphere (2 guaranteed spheres + 66.67% chance to spawn another sphere)

revival? 910/75 * 20% * 20 mans = 48.53 spheres.

[Taygai]

I remember actually telling my raid if they see small green orbs, walk into them for healing. Because I stacked mastery still well into MSV because I was too lazy to go back into heroics to farm haste gear, I had MANY ORBS everywhere. I think I took a screenshot of it at once, but I've lost my screenshots because of windows 10 wipe :/

[cqwrteur]

I remember actually telling my raid if they see small green orbs, walk into them for healing.

That was nonsense either. there wont be a real difference whether you ask your raid to walk into them or not.

if some ppl think walking into a sphere was difficult, it is also difficult not to walk into a sphere.