[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Somus]

MW's have been the least played healer class for ages now.
It just does not work this way, unfortunately.

MW's will never be fully ignored, because there will always be the players like
"Oh look, I can clear Mythic 12+ with MW, it's good!" or "Oh hey, I am in heroic raid with low-geared/newbie/retarded healers, and doing top 1 HPS as MW!" making it atleast partially look like everything is ok.

And yea, MW may be the interesing class to play, not every player actually care about healer balance.

At first, the problem was too many uncontrollable multi-target healing (Uplifts everywhere), which was too hard to balance number-wise.

Now the problems is:
- zero raid utility
- "brand new" skillset designed to be mediocre at all aspects of healing
- manacosts designed with baseline manatea in mind, not talented.

You could be correct, I could be correct, but either way the class is not in a good way and we are desperate for answers or even acknowledgement of the challenges for MW from the developers.
Truth be told my cynicism is taking over these days when it comes to this spec and at the end of the day, I am only going to play Mistweaver this expansion, if I don't feel I can be competitive, I don't feel like paying. Vote with the wallet I say.

[Deleted]

The set has a problem for us as it has loads of mastery and haste. 4part bonus doesnt seem worth the loss of stats or replacing drape or legendaries. Pretty much only helm and gloves are worth using after they change stats on the set.

[Deleted]

1) Use Revivals as often as you can, don't try to save it for "AW SHIT" moment or using it in healer rotation since it heals for meh at low-to-mid gear levels with useless haste&mastery stats and is generally used as manasave for other healers.
2) Renewing Mist on CD
3) Don't Vivify out of UT proc
4) Essence Font for AoE healing, use wisely.
5) Enveloping only when you're sure it won't go 80% overheal (rend flesh dot tank on Ursoc or bursting into reflect mage on cenarius, for example).

6) Be OOM 3 minutes into the fight because you have zero adequate manareturn mechanics (SotC? meh.).
7) Be destroyed HPS- and utility-wise by palas, shammies and druids.
8) Ask your RL, why MW?

9) Reroll again.


That's current MW playstyle, sorry for being that toxic. Speaking from one of the top-10 guilds.

Lol thanks. We are 7/7m so it should be ok as we have 3 really strong healers this more to gear me up for next raid. But we just lost a healer for a while after he had an accident so i guess more pressure on me, esp as he was resto sham :f

[Solemnity]

You could be correct, I could be correct, but either way the class is not in a good way and we are desperate for answers or even acknowledgement of the challenges for MW from the developers.
Truth be told my cynicism is taking over these days when it comes to this spec and at the end of the day, I am only going to play Mistweaver this expansion, if I don't feel I can be competitive, I don't feel like paying. Vote with the wallet I say.

Just like in the past, Blizzard will progressively work their way towards us. They'll make a vague comment about healer tuning, or if the planets align actually reference Mistweaver specifically. They will probably try to fix our scaling issue since its the easiest thing to fix, anyway. All that will really do is bring us probably on par with Holy Priests. Without any utility upgrades that wont affect our undesirability. Give it a few more months and they'll probably release a band-aid 4 piece bonus that does something overpowered. By that time most other healers have scaled out of control, and everyone is so close to the new tier that the effort it would take to gear a MW is not worth the benefit.

Eventually Blizzard will admit that there are flaws in our design, and want to change it. They will simultaneously say they don't want to do big class changes outside of expansions, so we're going to sit on our hands until then. The cycle will probably repeat.

[Buildapanda]

Just like in the past, Blizzard will progressively work their way towards us. They'll make a vague comment about healer tuning, or if the planets align actually reference Mistweaver specifically. They will probably try to fix our scaling issue since its the easiest thing to fix, anyway. All that will really do is bring us probably on par with Holy Priests. Without any utility upgrades that wont affect our undesirability. Give it a few more months and they'll probably release a band-aid 4 piece bonus that does something overpowered. By that time most other healers have scaled out of control, and everyone is so close to the new tier that the effort it would take to gear a MW is not worth the benefit.

Eventually Blizzard will admit that there are flaws in our design, and want to change it. They will simultaneously say they don't want to do big class changes outside of expansions, so we're going to sit on our hands until then. The cycle will probably repeat.

It's almost as this has already happened already or something.

[Spotnick]

Problem with mistweavers is apparently we shine in battlegrounds.

If that's true (I rarely pvp), that might be why Blizzard think we're fine.

[Thra]

Problem with mistweavers is apparently we shine in battlegrounds.

If that's true (I rarely pvp), that might be why Blizzard think we're fine.

We did at the start of Legion, there has been some nerfs. I havent done much PvP either. But I do remember doing smoe BGs at the start and just being able to keep myself alive with 3-4 dps focusing me due to our insta cast EnvM and out moving channel SooM. We also have transc and great movement for kiting / resetting.



But that said, the whole point of the separate talent trees I thought was so that they can tune them separately. Sigh.

[EVB]

Healer balance and diversity is pretty good right now.

Where's my hpala alt?

[Geodew]

This is wrong. 6 target EF isn't remotely close to the HPM of LC vivify.

A blanket statement of "w/ mastery" doesn't mean anything in this image. How many times are you double proccing mastery? How much mana is being invested for the mastery procs?

Side note, your rjw hpm is also wrong.

His screenshot is straight from the spreadsheet with its defaults (10.7% haste, 151%sp Gust), which does assume you don't have a ReM up to proc a final Gust, though, which isn't hard to see if you look at the derivation; eventually, I'd like to put in a separate toggle or separate entries for that. It's on the EF tab to the right. You can change Haste/Mastery on the Main tab and it will adjust the numbers automatically, including determining Haste breakpoints for EF for higher Haste (see formula in EF tab cell L2). And if you think the HPM for RJW is wrong, I'd very much like to hear why; it's a very simple formula. I have it at 297% sp per target with 6 targets for 55k mana (Haste reduces the cooldown and makes it tick faster, but does not get you extra healing). If datamining is wrong please LMK.

Speaking practically, one must also account for the fact that you won't get all your EF Mastery procs if you're proccing it with Lifecycles, and people must also remain injured for the entire 6-second duration of the HoTs. But that's just analyzing and understanding the numbers given to you (EF-6 without Mastery is in the left table, so you can see the difference). A spreadsheet isn't a good place to spell out that sort of thing.

Edit: Oops, think I dug up something from a while ago? Thought I was looking at newest posts. Ehh, point still stands: If you think something on my spreadsheet is wrong, please bring it to my attention in PMs or in the stat weight thread. Suplift, you have about 6 different ways to contact me. Lol.

[krowbro]

Problem with mistweavers is apparently we shine in battlegrounds.

If that's true (I rarely pvp), that might be why Blizzard think we're fine.

We are 100% OP in Arena and RBGs, as someone who has been doing a bit of PVP this expac. Our mobility is simply insane (mistwalk, chi torp with snare breaks, trancendence etc.) and our output is amazing as well. Mostly definitely needs a nerf in PVP but it is hilarious if they think this is what is causing PVE issues. maybe thats why they keep pushing for mastery as well? (cause of PVP)

[Deleted]

Cant choose your own stats for pvp tho. Even when mistweavers was at their strongest for pvp, druids still won the blizzcon qualifiers.

[Meradith]

Hey guys, I was looking into more optimization of MW in a raid setting. I was wondering how you guys actually spend the time that either mana tea is active or innervate is active. Right now, I normally go EF>cast 2 things that seem appropriate until the HoT from EF falls off>EF. Is this what other do for maximum hps, or should we go ahead and take advantage of the free/cheap casts and just spam EF?

[Myta]

We are 100% OP in Arena and RBGs, as someone who has been doing a bit of PVP this expac. Our mobility is simply insane (mistwalk, chi torp with snare breaks, trancendence etc.) and our output is amazing as well. Mostly definitely needs a nerf in PVP but it is hilarious if they think this is what is causing PVE issues. maybe thats why they keep pushing for mastery as well? (cause of PVP)

The whole point of separating PVP and PVE is that balance should be separated. "MWs are good in PVP" means nothing, absolutely nothing to MWs who don't PVP and it's a non-issue and non-argument to bring up as a reason why MW in PVE are underperforming and unwanted. Also it only takes a slightest nerf until Resto Druid is back in dominance as the defacto healer.

Please never use such an argument again.

[Deleted]

Got the legendary Belt today. Any advice for an T3 Talent with Belt + bracers ? Not sure if Lifecycles or Mistwrap. I like the moving while Soothing mist.

[Deleted]

Mist Wrap is at least as good as Lifecycle. When you understand encounters and know when to use SooM I feel MW to be better.

[Floopa]

tier looks strong btw if the 'meta' to play monks will be lifecycles vivify/enveloping rotation w/ minimal EF use OR EF > spam vivify into EF buff. in which case you'd likely want to go crit > mastery

if the playstyle remains get 3 essence font relics and spam EF w/ mana tea + innervates then you'll likely want to avoid tier entirely imo

[Supliftz]

The tier and the bosses generally push a lifecycles playstyle as the main playstyle.

[Deleted]

Been playing arround with RJW. I find it quite powerful. But its pushing it abit on the mana. It defenitly has a diffrent playstyle cos of it.

[Nakazanie]

The thing is, even if you have a fight where people are tightly packed (Ursoc), Chi-Ji still heals for more, so RJW will always be the wrong option, minmaxing-wise. But I agree, it's a cool spell.

[cqwrteur]

RJW definitely needs a buff. It is underpowered now.