[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

You don't need to keep ISB 100%. If you're not tanking, it's waste of brews. I highly recommend to use better way to watch stagger than default interface, 100% stagger isn't that much.

Basically you have limited brews, some are spent for ISB, so few that left could be spent for purifying. You must purify as big stagger as possible. So it all comes to planning and knowing the encounter. If you expect huge damage (e.g. felclaws), save brews. If damage is steady and your avoidance failed so you got hit few times and stagger is higher than usual, purify. If you expect some time without external healing, purify in advance.

I like keeping ISB up 100% because even when not tanking there is sometimes raid damage happening. I certainly agree we need to have ISB available for Fel Claws, but why wouldn't we? When we can keep it up 100%? I tanked KJ on my monk for the first time tonight. I supplemented ISB with AHR or FB, with a Purify toward the end of each round. Seemed to work out ok.

If there was an option to have ISB auto-renew itself so it stayed up 100% and we only ever saw the surplus brews, wouldn't most of us use that? Just for convenience and safety?

[Raiz]

Ask them. They will let you know. Most of the time, keeping ISB up and not seeing your health bar dip is good enough to keep healers happy. If your health bar is dipping, healers might be straining. When you do get ahead - ISB has time to spare and you have a brew to spare, go ahead and purify IF you are in red.

Later you will learn the fights and know exactly when you need to purify. Meanwhile this approach should work out fine.

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I shouldn't pass myself off as an expert on Brewmaster, as I am still learning myself. This is my 6th tank - one of each - so I'm comfortable with the basics. What is working for me so far is:

1. Keep ISB up 100% so healers never get caught by surprise.
2. Watch both stagger level AND health bar; if stagger is red but health is full, this means healers are keeping up.
3. Keep RJW up so I'll always be picking up loose adds.
4. Purify if ISB has plenty of time left, stagger is high, and I have a brew to spare.
5. Save big CDs for when health bar is dipping (healers falling behind) or I know big damage is incoming.

More experienced Brewmasters can weigh in if I am leading you astray.

I'm curious about that part though. What's your stance when you're short on brews ? Would you rather keep ISB up or would you use them to purify since we already have 40% stagger by default ? That's also assuming you don't have any healing orbs around.

[Tech614]

I'm curious about that part though. What's your stance when you're short on brews ? Would you rather keep ISB up or would you use them to purify since we already have 40% stagger by default ? That's also assuming you don't have any healing orbs around.

If you ever take a hit from a boss without ISB up you're doing it wrong. The only time you can safely let ISB drop to use more purifies is when you're being taunted off of, like on KJ for example with Felclaws you only keep a high enough ISB duration to cover felclaws duration and use any other brews directly on purify as you will stop tanking the second felclaws ends.

Without ISB you're basically a pally tank without SOTR up AND you still get a DoT after taking the hit on top of it unlike the pal.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I'm curious about that part though. What's your stance when you're short on brews ? Would you rather keep ISB up or would you use them to purify since we already have 40% stagger by default ? That's also assuming you don't have any healing orbs around.

Anything staggered has a chance to be healed before I die. Any damage not staggered might kill me immediately. I would always prioritize ISB over Purify, if I had to choose. The goal, as I understand it, is to keep ISB up always and use Purify judiciously so you never have to choose.

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I suppose the exception would be when the dot from stagger was the primary incoming damage, in which case reducing the dot would be the best way of mitigating the damage. So if the dot from stagger was the biggest damage I expected to receive any time soon, I might prioritize Purify.

[Raiz]

If you ever take a hit from a boss without ISB up you're doing it wrong. The only time you can safely let ISB drop to use more purifies is when you're being taunted off of, like on KJ for example with Felclaws you only keep a high enough ISB duration to cover felclaws duration and use any other brews directly on purify as you will stop tanking the second felclaws ends.

Without ISB you're basically a pally tank without SOTR up AND you still get a DoT after taking the hit on top of it unlike the pal.

I don't care if I'm doing it wrong, I want to know what's your priority if you fall in a situation like that. Have you ever been in a position where the raid went to some unexpected situation and you had to rely on yourself and make the best use of it ? If so, then what would you do ?
From my experience, I'd rather use purify if I know the next hits won't kill me (example : I'm mostly at 35% life, I used all the healing orbs, I'm at around 90% life, I now have 1 or almost 2 brews up and no BoB. I guess in this situation I could use ISB, but if I'm already having a big Dot, then I'd rather use purify before using ISB).

[ReD-EyeD]

Without ISB you're basically a pally tank without SOTR up AND you still get a DoT after taking the hit on top of it unlike the pal.

Even tho I agree with your basic statement, paladins have a lot more armor and overall defensive passives than brewmaster without ISB up.

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I don't care if I'm doing it wrong, I want to know what's your priority if you fall in a situation like that. Have you ever been in a position where the raid went to some unexpected situation and you had to rely on yourself and make the best use of it ? If so, then what would you do ?
From my experience, I'd rather use purify if I know the next hits won't kill me (example : I'm mostly at 35% life, I used all the healing orbs, I'm at around 90% life, I now have 1 or almost 2 brews up and no BoB. I guess in this situation I could use ISB, but if I'm already having a big Dot, then I'd rather use purify before using ISB).

This is the exact time for the fortifying brew.

You can't really calculate situations like that. There are too much of factors around, you just can't.
Only thing that I can say is that there is no point of saving ISB for raid damage unless it hits extremely hard, but there are situations when you want to keep ISB all the time for something like Krosus/Harjatar dots to smooth them when stacked too much.

[keqe]

Even tho I agree with your basic statement, paladins have a lot more armor and overall defensive passives than brewmaster without ISB up.

Not really. Paladin at around 930 gear has 52% armor DR against bosses (and 12% with blessed hammer). Monk has 40%. But monk also has 40% stagger without IsB. The initial hit is much lower with brewmaster without AM up. T20 4p is quite equal to hot blooded in comparison too.

The paladin hit will be lower if the paladin blocks, but that is RNG and the most annoying mechanic about modern paladin. Absolutely unreliable.

But monk also has much better chance (or guaranteed one) to dodge the attack too.

[ReD-EyeD]

Not really. Paladin at around 930 gear has 52% armor DR against bosses (and 12% with blessed hammer). Monk has 40%. But monk also has 40% stagger without IsB. The initial hit is much lower with brewmaster without AM up. T20 4p is quite equal to hot blooded in comparison too.

The paladin hit will be lower if the paladin blocks, but that is RNG and the most annoying mechanic about modern paladin. Absolutely unreliable.

But monk also has much better chance (or guaranteed one) to dodge the attack too.

Yes you're right. I explained myself wrongly too tho. In the absolute naked no-buttons-pressed state yes, actual stagger will be more beneficial for smoothing (even if the overall damage is higher), but paladins have so much more things that they can do and so many other CDs besides SOTF and it's hard to ignore them. They're also getting their armor buffed in 7.3 too.

[Tech614]

I don't care if I'm doing it wrong, I want to know what's your priority if you fall in a situation like that. Have you ever been in a position where the raid went to some unexpected situation and you had to rely on yourself and make the best use of it ? If so, then what would you do ?
From my experience, I'd rather use purify if I know the next hits won't kill me (example : I'm mostly at 35% life, I used all the healing orbs, I'm at around 90% life, I now have 1 or almost 2 brews up and no BoB. I guess in this situation I could use ISB, but if I'm already having a big Dot, then I'd rather use purify before using ISB).

Having ISB up is giving your healers time to heal you.

Not having ISB up is getting hit with a 40 ton mack truck in the face and expecting to get healed through it.

The difference in a good vs bad brewmaster is how many purifies they can muster(and the damage those purified actually mitigate) while keeping up ISB. Not letting ISB drop and getting punched in the face, making all of your healers panic and start a flash on you. The spec is literally balanced around ISB being up 100%, without ISB you're a pretty shoddy tank option.

[Drutt]

Switching back to my BM monk for 7.3 due to tanking issues and I'm trying to get up to speed fast. I'm not 100% which guides are up to date, so if someone could recommend the most accurate one I would appreciate it.

Which legendaries are most BM monks aiming for right now? It seems to me that the Abbey ring is by far the best, defensively.

[Marrilaife]

Which legendaries are most BM monks aiming for right now?

Shoulder and chest, because logs.

[Drutt]

Shoulder and chest, because logs.

Figured as much...but if you want survival instead of scumbag DPSing it?

Ring and Wrists seem to be a decent combo defensively, but that's based off reading not in-game play.

[Raiz]

Having ISB up is giving your healers time to heal you.

Not having ISB up is getting hit with a 40 ton mack truck in the face and expecting to get healed through it.

The difference in a good vs bad brewmaster is how many purifies they can muster(and the damage those purified actually mitigate) while keeping up ISB. Not letting ISB drop and getting punched in the face, making all of your healers panic and start a flash on you. The spec is literally balanced around ISB being up 100%, without ISB you're a pretty shoddy tank option.

You fail to understand my point it seems. The healer will panic regardless if you put ISB or not if you have a red stagger. Or a big red stagger. There are a lot of healer who still doesn't understand how exactly the monk works. Would you still use ISB if you had 1 brew remaining even though you have (let's exagerate this part) 1000% stagger ?

[ReD-EyeD]

Figured as much...but if you want survival instead of scumbag DPSing it?

Ring and Wrists seem to be a decent combo defensively, but that's based off reading not in-game play.

Both rings and bracers, yes. Talent ring is very handy for magic fights.

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You fail to understand my point it seems. The healer will panic regardless if you put ISB or not if you have a red stagger. Or a big red stagger. There are a lot of healer who still doesn't understand how exactly the monk works. Would you still use ISB if you had 1 brew remaining even though you have (let's exagerate this part) 1000% stagger ?

Once again, your question has no answer. It's basically "Choose option A if option B will kill you" and "Choose option B if option A will kill you" situation.

[Tech614]

1000% stagger ?

If you have stagger of even half that you're trying to cheese something major and would have purifies ready to go while maintaining ISB. Your scenario doesn't exist in WoW, maybe it does in some alternate universe but not in the one I reside in. There is never a situation in current WoW where you will ever want to let ISB drop while actively tanking a boss.

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Figured as much...but if you want survival instead of scumbag DPSing it?

Ring and Wrists seem to be a decent combo defensively, but that's based off reading not in-game play.

Wrists are meh. Ring is great for damage smoothing.

Chest still has very good defensive benefit thanks to EB stacks on BoF now.

Shoulders don't have much defensive benefit, but you don't just use them for dps they also smooth your rotation out a lot putting less stress on you to be hitting keg smash exactly when it comes off CD.

Belt is a good defensive option when you take damage in huge bursts(Felclaws, Annihilate on Spellblade) but it's uses are pretty niche.

Prydaz is always a solid defensive option, as is archimondes.

[Raiz]

Once again, your question has no answer. It's basically "Choose option A if option B will kill you" and "Choose option B if option A will kill you" situation.

Indeed. I guess I'd have to rely on my own experience.

If you have stagger of even half that you're trying to cheese something major and would have purifies ready to go while maintaining ISB. Your scenario doesn't exist in WoW, maybe it does in some alternate universe but not in the one I reside in. There is never a situation in current WoW where you will ever want to let ISB drop while actively tanking a boss.

I figured you'd say that. I guess you never been in a situation like this. You're probably in a solid guild and gearing peacefully toward the difficulty of the content, allowing you to use ISB and Purify comfortably.
I'm not trying to cheese. I've found myself in this situation a lot probably because I'm undergeared and because I'm often playing alone (in case you don't know, I'm deaf so I can't rely on TS or discord for better strategics positionnings (spelling?)).
I know it's a shame because monk tank is my favorite by far. It also doesn't help when my main has like 20+ more ilvl than the monk.

What I mean by stagger, it means for example there's poor raid's coordination and I had to choose between using ISB or Purify against felclaws + armageddon with a red stagger. Often times I'd use purify because I knew that the dots would've killed me in combination with the felclaw, so that I'd use ISB later before the finals felclaws. If I had used another ISB, I'd simply die because the healing would become unbearable. Simple as that.
Like I said before, we already have 40% stagger by default. That's like more than what most tanks have as passive mitigation. In an ideal situation, if the stagger was paused, that'd mean instant 20% damage gone when you use purify right after.

Obviously, you want to have ISB up at all time. That'd have mean more damage purified. We all know that. That's what I've been doing since the beginning of Legion. It's just that, sometimes I feel like, you guys don't know what it feels like to be in a PuG group (or a newbie's guild) when there are many unexpected situations.

If you ever take a hit from a boss without ISB up you're doing it wrong.

This part was pretty annoying because it's like you're quickly jumping to conclusions. That's why I had to answer it. I may not be playing my monk as much as I'd like with my main, but your sentence implies that I suck at playing this class. For the record, there's only the druid tank that I've not played yet since the beginning of the legion. I didn't play it probably because I knew I'd get bored with the simplicity of this class.
Hopefully you understand my point of view.

Peace.

[keqe]

Tech is quite crude in his assessment. But he has a point.

If you end up in a situation on KJ where you have only 1 brew, IsB is falling off and the "real" damage is just coming (felclaw+armageddon), you must have played absolutely horribly 5-20s before that situation. Where could you even burn your brews if it wasn't for ironskin brew uptime? Only thing I can came up with is that you purified very small staggers for some reason.

So in the end the better question is how to avoid that situation all together.

[Gorsameth]

KJ is probably the only fight in ToS where I routinely let ISB fall off since your not taking meaningful damage when your not tanking the boss (Heroic).
This lets you save up for brew stacks for when you need to taunt back.

But I don't take Felclaws + Armageddon, that seems like a terrible combination when you can just use the other tank who doesn't have the debuff or any class with an immunity.

[Noodleface]

When you guys say fel claws + Armageddon are you talking about soaking an Armageddon with a full 5 stack? I tried that once and it left me at 10% HP.

For phase 2 the tanks never soak Armageddon unless the boss can be safely pulled to the spot. IIRC Armageddon during phase 2 happens before the boss empowers his claws.

During this fight if I'm not actively tanking then I leave isb down. The only time I pop one is if I'm going to take an Armageddon or eat some damage. The damage in this fight is predictable, there is no random raidwide damage going out at all that you don't know about.

During fel claws I pop 3x brews for isb then the remaining are for purifying claws 3-5. I also use AHR, dampen harm, and fort brew. I find tanking fel claws in heroic to be fairly predictable.

[antico]

yo u can safely soak an Armageddon with felclaws debuff, just pop a zen med, unless you're using the leggo head (which I see no reason for unless you dont have any other leggs), there isnt any other practical moment to use it in the fight, as a single swipe of felclaws will cancel the effect